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Old 01-05-2021, 01:25 PM   #381
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Except you know this is almost certainly based off the stated doses in vials, and not accounting for the excess that we should be making full use of.

I should hope the standard here is a hell of a lot higher than what I do with leftover KFC.
.3% is certainly not six sigma levels of efficiency/ accuracy but to put it in perspective, this equals only 1 "wasted dose" for every 333 that are administered. Or 3 wasted per 1000 administered. Given the handling and logistical complications, what would be an acceptable number? I also fully believe that if we are currently at .3%, once vaccinations are going full bore ahead, the efficiency will surely increase.
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Old 01-05-2021, 01:29 PM   #382
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Except you know this is almost certainly based off the stated doses in vials, and not accounting for the excess that we should be making full use of.

I should hope the standard here is a hell of a lot higher than what I do with leftover KFC.
That would suggest 20% waste which does not seem reasonable either given there has only been 1 tweet about it.

I’d bet it’s waste / injected rather than waste / vials x 5
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Old 01-05-2021, 01:34 PM   #383
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I'm a bit torn on the unused vaccine question.

Do we want to be using everything we can? Absolutely. Pretty hard to argue that you couldn't find somebody to jab in the arm if you've got an open vial on hand. These vaccines are delivered in hospitals are they not? After that, just walk into the nearest retail store and grab an "essential worker".

If there's a usable portion at the end of the vial we should be using it.
On the other hand, do we want nurses and vaccine administrators to be squeezing out the last drop to try to get another dose? Probably not.

If we could trust the government to be honest about the situation, that'd be great, but it doesn't seem we can. AHS' response left unanswered questions, and CMOH and Shandro's release seemed to be worded verrrry carefully. I'm the first to admit I'm not a medical expert so I guess, call me concerned, but not outraged until more info comes out or people smarter than I charm in, I'm at a bit of a loss.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:27 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Zarley View Post
Is this verified anywhere? Not sure someone who has the word ‘activist’ in their bio and writes with the grammar/punctuation of a realtor is the most trustworthy source.
This seems more like somebody trying to score political/social media outrage points.
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Old 01-05-2021, 03:27 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Derek Sutton View Post
.3% is certainly not six sigma levels of efficiency/ accuracy but to put it in perspective, this equals only 1 "wasted dose" for every 333 that are administered. Or 3 wasted per 1000 administered. Given the handling and logistical complications, what would be an acceptable number? I also fully believe that if we are currently at .3%, once vaccinations are going full bore ahead, the efficiency will surely increase.
Just being a smart as pedant here, but I know Bill pretty well, and I'm pretty sure:
a) he knows the math behind 0.3% = 3/1000
b) restating 0.3% in a slightly different, but entirely conceptually equivalent way, isn't "putting it in perspective"
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Old 01-05-2021, 03:37 PM   #386
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I'm a bit torn on the unused vaccine question.

Do we want to be using everything we can? Absolutely. Pretty hard to argue that you couldn't find somebody to jab in the arm if you've got an open vial on hand. These vaccines are delivered in hospitals are they not? After that, just walk into the nearest retail store and grab an "essential worker".

If there's a usable portion at the end of the vial we should be using it.
On the other hand, do we want nurses and vaccine administrators to be squeezing out the last drop to try to get another dose? Probably not.

If we could trust the government to be honest about the situation, that'd be great, but it doesn't seem we can. AHS' response left unanswered questions, and CMOH and Shandro's release seemed to be worded verrrry carefully. I'm the first to admit I'm not a medical expert so I guess, call me concerned, but not outraged until more info comes out or people smarter than I charm in, I'm at a bit of a loss.
Have we talked about Israel's "random pizza guy" strategy?
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:55 PM   #387
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Are the locations of the vaccine locations public? I thought they were keeping that quiet for the time being. If it isn't at a hospital, it would make it a bit tougher to grab people.
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:05 PM   #388
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Are the locations of the vaccine locations public? I thought they were keeping that quiet for the time being. If it isn't at a hospital, it would make it a bit tougher to grab people.
it's not a hospital , at least in Calgary
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:07 PM   #389
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...lout-1.5861875



Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the military commander leading vaccine logistics at the Public Health Agency of Canada, said Canada will receive 208,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine each week for the next three weeks, while 171,000 Moderna shots are expected to arrive on January 11.

"We're ready for a sustained tempo of vaccines throughout the month of January," Fortin said. "We're working diligently to ensure a continuous and predictable flow of vaccines."
I think I just heard Hinshaw say 13, 000 Pfizer to Alberta for this week- feels like a little disconnect to the 208 000 for Canada per week ( 13/ 208 ~ 6%)
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:22 PM   #390
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it's not a hospital , at least in Calgary
Is there anywhere to see live numbers for Vaccines given each day?
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:24 PM   #391
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Is there anywhere to see live numbers for Vaccines given each day?
https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html

This is the most up to date tracker and has doses injected and doses delivered to the province.

3408 today is a new high for Alberta. Leaves us with a 5.8 day supply.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:21 AM   #392
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https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html



This is the most up to date tracker and has doses injected and doses delivered to the province.



3408 today is a new high for Alberta. Leaves us with a 5.8 day supply.
Not fast enough. Needs to be 10x faster. Exhaust the supplies, there is no point in keeping them.
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:26 AM   #393
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Not fast enough. Needs to be 10x faster. Exhaust the supplies, there is no point in keeping them.
If Canada is getting 208k doses per week, our share in AB (at our 11.7% of population) is 24,300 per week. Or just under 3500 per day. So if we are doing 3500/day thats about right.

Would be good to see them ramp up a bit more, as our share of that Moderna shipment is another 600 jabs per day this month.

But to take health care resources to get to 10x that capacity when we will have nowhere near that supply of vaccines seems short sighted to me. I'd rather those nurses focus on patient care until there is actual vaccine for them to administer.
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Old 01-06-2021, 03:13 AM   #394
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Doesn't have to be active nurses, can be recalled retirees, med students and the like; they are doing this in the UK.

Rotate the extra hands through so that they are ready to go when significantly more doses are available.
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Old 01-06-2021, 03:34 AM   #395
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I think the truth is somewhere in between. I also think some of the calculations made by some do not properly reflect reality. To me, it seems like both sides are right and I don't see either side being too wrong either regarding the vaccine wastage.

I cannot substantiate the information I saw that was being passed around by doctors (was some word doc in a message group on a friend's phone), but I think both sides are correct, but still trying to spin the info a little.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...zer/index.html

According to this info, each Pfizer vial contains up to 6 doses of vaccine and it must be used within around 2-6 hours of being thawed/diluted. Each dose is 0.3mL which means each vial is probably 1.8-2.0 mL and a bit of margin of error is allowed per vial. We also know that the Pfizer vaccine requires very specific handling to avoid spoilage.

I don't think the outcry is about a few drops at the bottom of any vial. That makes no sense. The outcry (that again, I cannot substantiate) seemed to hint at many full doses. So perhaps the outcry is more looking more at full vials or maybe even multiple 1/3 vials (still 2 doses) being thrown away.

https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html

If Shandro's 0.3% number is also carefully worded, then with the 26K vaccination numbers we have so far in Alberta, that's almost 80 doses wasted. From the Shandro side (and especially if they are just relying on data and not seeing the wastage first hand at vaccination centres), 80 wasted doses over 26K successful vaccinations is negligible.

If I had to combine the two sides together...

My guess is that the wastage per regular vial is negligible and those with outcry do not care about that. From the doctor outcry side, my guess is that all you need is to see 5-10 doses being wasted several times to be upset. I could see someone seeing that being distraught as it's dozens of doses that could vaccinate people that really want it ASAP but must wait. But these anecdotal wasted dosage numbers would still ultimately be a mountain out of a mole hill in the grand scheme of things.


What I might be inclined to believe though, is that the wastage is actually closer to 0.5% vs 0.3% as reported. That's 130 doses vs 80 ish out of 26K, so that's quite a few more of those 5-10 dosage waste situations to frustrate healthcare workers. But IMO again, in the grand scheme of things, it's negligible.

I'd also be inclined to believe that healthcare workers have been in a significantly more stressful situation than the rest of us. This high stress/risk environment might mean they're a little more likely to be on hairpin triggers relating to how some of the response is being unrolled by the government. IMO, this is fair, but it also kinda means I would suggest making sure the frustrations aren't overstated.
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:17 AM   #396
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Not fast enough. Needs to be 10x faster. Exhaust the supplies, there is no point in keeping them.
It's tough to say if it is fast enough without knowing details. It's possible we had just used up our previous delivery, and a new delivery showed up, which takes a few days to distribute, so we may "have" them but they can't instantly be injected. I'm not sure a 5 day supply is much to worry about. If we had a month's worth, and more was coming in and getting backed up, well ya, then it's a failure. Expecting every dose delivered to be instantly injected isn't realistic.
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Old 01-06-2021, 04:48 PM   #397
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:27 PM   #398
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3764 vaccinations today, up 300 or so from yesterday.

16000 or vaccines remaining in stock which is a 4.3 day supply.

https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:27 PM   #399
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In other US news, about 500k were vaccinated in last day. It is still too slow, as so many states have so many doses in 'stock', but is ramping up.
I do not get why they haven't opened it up some in our area. Illinois has had 540k delivered and total of 189k administered to date. There are 700k HCP's and long term care residents, so not sure if they are holding off on general release until that number of doses is met, or what the strategy is. But no need for 350k doses sitting in cold storage, imo.
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:37 PM   #400
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biggest vaccine day ever in the tracker I think - 29 000 Nation wide, one in 190 Canadians or so have had a single dose. the country still sitting under 50% of supply used. baby steps for sure...
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