Coronavirus All-Purpose Thread: The Second Wave

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Boreal

You might have a leg to stand on if the differences in numbers weren’t egregious.

102 cases vs. 18,522

Yeah geography plays a part but there have been consistent undeniable mistakes made by governments.

Newfoundland has had a mask mandate and precautions despite low numbers.
Saskatchewan had zero cases at the end of August.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1348911814994763776

Again, it depends on what the goal is. Newfoundland clearly valued minimizing cases at all costs. That is fine, I won't argue that. But it comes at a huge price to their economy. Near complete isolation from the rest of Canada (outside the small Atlantic bubble) is coming at a economic cost. The western Provinces took a more balanced approach and tried to keep the economy propped up while managing the case load within the capability of the health care system. That comes at a health cost with higher case numbers. Both strategies have merit.

[PaperBagger'14]

One thing that was interesting to think back on, the physicians in AB that wanted a "circuit breaker reset" lockdown would have done so in vain, as evidenced by our current numbers and timeline.

That style of lockdown, IMO, would have only worked with very intense and strictly enforced measures.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

One thing that was interesting to think back on, the physicians in AB that wanted a "circuit breaker reset" lockdown would have done so in vain, as evidenced by our current numbers and timeline.

That style of lockdown, IMO, would have only worked with very intense and strictly enforced measures.

Isn't that exactly what a circuit breaker lockdown is?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Isn't that exactly what a circuit breaker lockdown is?

From the few articles I had read, it basically stated the closure of non essential services for a short (2 weeks ish) time frame. Given our list of essential vs non essential businesses, we've basically been there for the last month. No article I read mentioned changing the definitions of essential or non.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Again, it depends on what the goal is. Newfoundland clearly valued minimizing cases at all costs. That is fine, I won't argue that. But it comes at a huge price to their economy. Near complete isolation from the rest of Canada (outside the small Atlantic bubble) is coming at a economic cost. The western Provinces took a more balanced approach and tried to keep the economy propped up while managing the case load within the capability of the health care system. That comes at a health cost with higher case numbers. Both strategies have merit.

Is there any info on how Newfoundland is doing economically vs Alberta. Newfoundland had huge issues before covid even hit. Is there any evidence that it's their lockdowns that are hurting them economically? Both places are dependent on oil, and both got hammered by lower oil demand world wide.

Alberta's economy didn't do any better in 2020, and if the benefit is marginal, you may as well try and keep the virus under control.

There's an argument to be made that keeping the virus under control is much better for the economy, than long lockdowns with weak restrictions.

I'd certainly be more willing to spend more money in the economy if I wasn't living in a place with high case counts etc.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Again, it depends on what the goal is. Newfoundland clearly valued minimizing cases at all costs. That is fine, I won't argue that. But it comes at a huge price to their economy. Near complete isolation from the rest of Canada (outside the small Atlantic bubble) is coming at a economic cost. The western Provinces took a more balanced approach and tried to keep the economy propped up while managing the case load within the capability of the health care system. That comes at a health cost with higher case numbers. Both strategies have merit.

https://financialpost.com/opinion/20...-rounds-of-six

Most people had assumed there would be a trade-off between health and the economy: that if you imposed restrictions to limit the virus’s spread and keep deaths down, your economy would be hurt — and the tougher the restrictions the worse for the economy. But not so. Countries that imposed restrictions early and severely, keeping deaths per million low, also had a low decline in GDP. By contrast, countries that applied restrictions haphazardly, letting deaths reach high levels while hoping to protect jobs, had among the biggest declines in GDP. It turns out the best economic policy was successful aggressive action to limit COVID’s spread.

People don't exist for the economy, rather the economy exists for the people.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

There's an argument to be made that keeping the virus under control is much better for the economy, than long lockdowns with weak restrictions.

I'd certainly be more willing to spend more money in the economy if I wasn't living in a place with high case counts etc.

Agreed, there is some merit to that argument.

Your second point is valid too but everyone would be unique. Case count and my willingness to spend are independent for example.

[albertGQ]

Kenny said he’d give businesses a weeks notice before he lifts restrictions. That would be today

Anyone know if there is a plan for a press conference today?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Kenny said he’d give businesses a weeks notice before he lifts restrictions. That would be today

Anyone know if there is a plan for a press conference today?

I sure hope so!

Our non-profit is going to have to shutter if we don't open up ASAP. Which would be a huge blow to the kids in our community!

[GGG]

I don’t see any basis on which you could open businesses right now. You need the nexts weeks data to understand the impact of schools going back. At a minimum they need to keep the zero indoor visits.

[Fuzz]

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...evere-outcomes


OK, so looking at the chart, our hospitalization rate is where it was Dec 18th. To get where we were on Dec 8th when restrictions went in, we need to drop another ~ 80 cases. But that just gets us to where we decided we needed to do something, so easing restrictions at that point also doesn't make sense. So where do we aim for, and not end up in trouble 2 weeks later? It's a very tough situation...

[Firebot]

Have to see impacts of schools before any attempt to reopen. I do hope they open smaller things like barber shops and hair salons, they were unfairly targeted when there has been no outbreaks linked to these activities.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...evere-outcomes


OK, so looking at the chart, our hospitalization rate is where it was Dec 18th. To get where we were on Dec 8th when restrictions went in, we need to drop another ~ 80 cases. But that just gets us to where we decided we needed to do something, so easing restrictions at that point also doesn't make sense. So where do we aim for, and not end up in trouble 2 weeks later? It's a very tough situation...

In fairness, hospitalizations are a lagging indicator. So while I agree you need to see how the data looks with schools open, they waited too long on the upswing because hospitals were still OK as cases rose. It seems reasonable to re-open once cases drop back as long as hospitals are declining as well, even if its not completely down to where you want it.

Especially once we get to the point where the vaccine is starting to impact outcomes among the most vulnerable.

I'm not saying movies, casinos, and large conventions. But I feel pretty bad for hairdressers right now.

[Fuzz]

If they do re-open some things, I'd think they really need to leave people working from home if possible. I'd rather normal businesses get a chance to re-open, than have downtown flooded with people again. Yes, working from home is not ideal, but many can do it without it being hugely disruptive.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If they do re-open some things, I'd think they really need to leave people working from home if possible. I'd rather normal businesses get a chance to re-open, than have downtown flooded with people again. Yes, working from home is not ideal, but many can do it without it being hugely disruptive.

I've heard people with hair would like hair salons opened up a week before offices are allowed to open up. People with hair are so fickle.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If they do re-open some things, I'd think they really need to leave people working from home if possible. I'd rather normal businesses get a chance to re-open, than have downtown flooded with people again. Yes, working from home is not ideal, but many can do it without it being hugely disruptive.

This seems reasonable, I suspect the UCP will avoid it........

[troutman]

Doctors Begin to Crack Covid’s Mysterious Long-Term Effects

Severe fatigue, memory lapses, heart problems affect patients who weren’t that badly hit initially; ‘It’s been so long’

https://www.wsj.com/articles/doctors...jtwittertest19

Nearly a year into the global coronavirus pandemic, scientists, doctors and patients are beginning to unlock a puzzling phenomenon: For many patients, including young ones who never required hospitalization, Covid-19 has a devastating second act.

Many are dealing with symptoms weeks or months after they were expected to recover, often with puzzling new complications that can affect the entire body—severe fatigue, cognitive issues and memory lapses, digestive problems, erratic heart rates, headaches, dizziness, fluctuating blood pressure, even hair loss.

What is surprising to doctors is that many such cases involve people whose original cases weren’t the most serious, undermining the assumption that patients with mild Covid-19 recover within two weeks. Doctors call the condition “post-acute Covid” or “chronic Covid,” and sufferers often refer to themselves as “long haulers” or “long-Covid” patients.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by albertgq

kenny said he’d give businesses a weeks notice before he lifts restrictions. That would be today

anyone know if there is a plan for a press conference today?

There is an update at 3:30, but it sounds like it is just Hinshaw, so...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1349787994882932736

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by troutman

Doctors Begin to Crack Covid’s Mysterious Long-Term Effects

Severe fatigue, memory lapses, heart problems affect patients who weren’t that badly hit initially; ‘It’s been so long’

https://www.wsj.com/articles/doctors...jtwittertest19

And this is why I think a crap ton of nay sayers are going to REALLY regret their position on the covid thing. Your non mask wearers and "it's just the flu so I don't care if I get it" type.

Honestly, this is the only part of covid that scares me.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by troutman

Doctors Begin to Crack Covid’s Mysterious Long-Term Effects

Severe fatigue, memory lapses, heart problems affect patients who weren’t that badly hit initially; ‘It’s been so long’

https://www.wsj.com/articles/doctors...jtwittertest19

But the death/hospitalization rate for healthy people is so low that we had nothing to worry about?!?! And we should remove all restrictions the minute LTCs and frontline are vaccinated to save the economy. Isn’t this what I was told repeatedly ITT?

Lol. Good luck with that.