Training Camp - Sept 24

[Burning Beard]

So many experts on CP. I trust Darryl 2 time cup winner Sutter on D pairings over any random schlub on here. It's day two of on ice training camp. Let it run its course.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Werner moving to the Stockton grouping was foreseeable. Wolf having a good camp could push the absent Parsons down the chart (if it hasn't already).

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Wish They Could Win

I bet by mid season the defence looks more like…

Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Zadorov-Stone

Kylington-Gudbranson only playing spot duty based on opponents or injuries.

My guess is that Sutter is starting Valimaki lower on the depth chart to make him earn it. He also has less pressure there so he can work on his game with less minutes until he is truly ready for that bigger role.


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As long as Valimaki is showing progression, that's a really decent and well balanced group.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

So many experts on CP. I trust Darryl 2 time cup winner Sutter on D pairings over any random schlub on here. It's day two of on ice training camp. Let it run its course.

Darryl was asked his reasoning for some line combinations and his response was more or less "I don't know, I'm just seeing how it goes and how they look"

Yes, looks like he's putting loads of thought into it one day into camp.

I actually think some on here have a pretty decent handle on what may or may not work based on familiarity and histories.

I'm not sure Darryl yet has that familiarity, and will eventually draw some of the same conclusions himself.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Kylington will have his coming out party and man our Powerplay! I believe in him.

Many before you have fallen where you stand.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1441485576817889285

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by neo45

I can live with the forward lines. They’ll be better than last season

D pairings are just really dumb. Gutulzan like. Breaking up a dominant top pairing to spread the quality around the line up is literally what he tried when he got here and it was a disaster

Hanifin/Tanev was so good. Only this franchise would see that and be like “we gotta split those guys up”

Can't the "only this franchise" stuff stop now that a cup winning coach is in town?

He's making the call. He even talked about it behind the biggest issue for him in camp.

He'll likely change them, but calling what he's doing as dumb seems a little arm chair.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Dont_trash_Dion

Que up the 40,000 + Armchair Coaches!!! It’s day 2 of camp!!!

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

So many experts on CP. I trust Darryl 2 time cup winner Sutter on D pairings over any random schlub on here. It's day two of on ice training camp. Let it run its course.

Similar things were said when Gulutzan was a coach, and when Ward was the coach. Why even bother having an opinion different than what the team is doing... they obviously know best and can't make a mistake!


I don't mind the pairings/lines any decisions in training camp, but those takes just irk me.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1441485576817889285

I really like Dube, and Kylington being in the top 3 for fitness. I hope they both take a step this season. As for Backlund, also glad he's in great shape.

[djsFlames]

Just another point in the bank for Backlund for why he makes a solid C candidate.

[Reggie Dunlop]

[Enoch Root]

Love that the Flames are recognizing the Roy Kent lookalike!

[GioforPM]

Dube is going to be a leader on the team one day. If he accepts what Sutter teaches him he is going to be really good.

ETA: that said it would be nice if one of the big guns like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm or Monahan were on the list. Or Hanifin. Iginla and Gio consistently were at the top in fitness testing IIRC.

[Bingo]

Wonder if we see more of a pop from Dube this year than expected.

He was clearly leaned on along with Valimaki with I'm guessing the hopes that he'd dig deep and be better in all areas.

Fitness isn't a bad way to start.

Flames are a different team if Dube moves into the 20 goal range and pushes the envelope.

[Canada 02]

I like that three older UFA prospects came in at the top
Also like seeing two guys who have a lot to prove to be full time NHLers put in the offseason work. Shoes their commitment

Backs is no surprise because he is a top character guy, and has consistently been among the top veterans in fitness, iirc

[Vinny01]

Listened to the FAN the past couple of days I heard Spector and I believe it was Jeff Marek on the Rintoul show and they both thought the Canucks looked and would be better than the Flames.

This is pretty perfect tonic for Sutter to work with. The Flames are largely being counted out and I think the potentially have the right mix of players who can bounce back, guys who can take big steps forward, and a coach who will ensure they play to their identity.

I hope teams are writing the Flames off as much as the media has been

[Toonage]

Right? Much rather this team be an afterthought or overlooked than the "best D corps in the league" etc that they've been showered with in the past which never seemed to work out well.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Just a few comments from what I read:


1) The "Brodie can't play the LS" stuff isn't really a thing. Brodie did VERY well on the LS paired with Engelland, and was arguably the best player on the team in those playoffs. Listening to Brodie after that terrible season, he himself stated that it was more about the playstyle as to why he had a poor season, and didn't even mention the LS. Is he better on the RS? Yes, but he is still good on the left. Playstyle + having to play with Hamonic = crap Brodie. Everything else = great defencemen. Look how much better Hanifin was last season after playing with Tanev or Andersson vs Hamonic too.



2) There are a number of thoughts about defensive pairings. Sure, having a stacked top pair is super awesome. Hopefully they can play 30 minutes a night too (doubtful). Even with the best case scenario of them being able to play half the minutes, what about the other half?



Andersson was awful last season. There was some advanced metrics posted up early this week which showed how terrible Andersson was (was it puck battles? I think that was it IIRC, but I might be wrong). I hope Andersson rebounds, but he is the slowest defencemen out there (maybe Gudbranson is slower now, but I that's not a given).


Zadorov isn't slow, but his agility is subpar - that's his weakness in his skating. It helps that he is big and has a reach, but having poor agility (not poor really, but probably below average) + a slower defencemen on a tandem may not be ideal.


Valimaki has shown he has some nice tools, but last season he has shown he is not ready for big minutes and more responsibility. Until he can show that in real game situations consistently, then he is a 3rd pairing young and (hopefully) improving defencemen. Makes sense to keep him there until he proves us otherwise. Gudbranson in the top 4 would be a mistake.


I think this is a rather logical way to approach the defence this year.


Last season, Hanifin - Tanev were essentially a 'shut-down' pairing - they contributed practically zero offensively for a long time, but were the best defensive pairing in the NHL. That has to change. Giordano is gone, and he was (once again) the top point producer on defence. Hanifin HAS to take that step forward. Having the best skating defencemen on the pair with the worst (at least in my opinion) is probably a good idea.



Zadorov has some pretty decent underlying metrics in terms of shot-suppression - perhaps him and Tanev can work well together being a 'shut-down' pairing (there really isn't anything else to their game, so if they can't form a formidable shut-down pairing, this season is going to get tough - good news, however - I expect them to be a good shut-down pairing). I am not a fan of shut-down pairings in this modern NHL - but at least this will be a more physical pairing while they do it too, which adds at least something else. I believe that as a defencemen, you need to be able to offer 2 things - the modern NHL defencemen should be able to offer offence/defence, or at least 'transition-playmaking/defence' (Brodie, and hopefully Hanifin this year). If not, and you are ONLY good at defence, you are not as valuable to your team in terms of winning games. Being physical and difficult to play against is adding something (not as important as offence obviously) but at least something 'more'. Nobody was scared playing against the top defensive pair last year, though perhaps frustrated. Hopefully this season they will both be frustrated and hurt.


I am not sure those pairings will work, but I think it makes sense for now. Zadorov - Tanev get the best lines. Hanifin - Andersson can be on the ice with Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangipane and hopefully be a fast strike offence type of unit. Zadorov - Tanev with Tkachuk-Lindholm-Coleman will be more of a 200ft line, and Zadorov can be there to get in those scrums with Tkachuk too.


Obviously being 4 lines and 3 defence pairings will shake things up somewhat, but I would like to see those combinations on the ice often. Backlund's line will of course get a lot of time with the Tanev pairing, as they are going to go up against the top lines most nights I assume.


This is going to be an interesting experiment, that's for sure. On paper, and based on last season's numbers, this is probably the lowest scoring defensive corps in the league, no? If not, it must be one of the lowest scoring on paper. I think they will still be solidly in the bottom 3rd at least after this season is over, but who knows? I won't say that Hanifin won't improve (his progression in terms of defence blew me away last season, as I didn't think he had the IQ to consistently be in such a good defensive position). Maybe he takes a step forward. Maybe Andersson took to heart what Sutter said about conditioning, and he has the energy to win more puck battles and take even a half-step forward offensively (great tools mostly, and I really think his footspeed has hurt him from taking that next step).


I will stop it there as we all know about Valimaki/Kylington - both very good offensive toolsets in different ways, but you can't count on them given their history thus far (but I bet both will be in the NHL for a long time - they are both 'modern' NHL defencemen that I think will have long careers as they continue to improve).


I am eager to see what this team can do this year. I am eager to see how hard they work every shift, and how quickly different players get put into the doghouse as Sutter breaks their bad habits that were ignored by Gulutzan, Peters and Ward. Yes, Peters too - Neal was only scratched once since signing here, and that was the last game of the playoffs - he was a blackhole everywhere on this roster and continually looked like he was barely making an effort - especially defensively - but he kept getting his minutes with Gaudreau - Monahan after every penalty kill).


This will hopefully be a breath of fresh air type of season. Team may not win a cup this year (with Sutter, who really knows??? lol). However, I bet they are an easier team to cheer, and I bet a few players will hit career highs or near career highs (Gaudreau and Monahan).

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Listened to the FAN the past couple of days I heard Spector and I believe it was Jeff Marek on the Rintoul show and they both thought the Canucks looked and would be better than the Flames.

Same thing with Bruce Boudreau, he was on the Radio yesterday shortly after 11am

[EVERLAST]

All I'm gonna say is if guys DON'T make positive strides under Darryl it's on them and NO ONE ELSE.

With that being said Dube obviously busted his ass training and took it very personal what Darryl said at the end of the year and it's translated into " I hear you coach , now play me "!

Seeing Backs and Kylingon in that top 3 is awesome.

Jesus tapdancing Christ I'm getting excited to watch this team.

Honestly , to see some toughness and players here that can push back and not tuck tail and skate away from scrums will be refreshing.

Message was sent and absorbed and I hope they understand that this is the new standard here.

Desire , Discipline and Darryl Sutter are going to make the difference BIGTIME.

I want to so badly see this team play the underdog all year and make people eat steaming hot crow.....now make it so....Go Flames Go!!! Know what I'm saying?