Election's Canada investigating "Robocall" Guelph Riding (and other ridings).

[c.t.ner]

I haven't seen this being discussed on the forum yet, if it is already being discussed mods please remove. But it looks like the Ottawa Citizen revealed late last week that Elections Canada has been looking into accusations of Election Fraud and voter suppression towards the Federal Conservatives in the riding of Guelph.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Elections+Canada+investigating+robocalls+that+misl ed+voters/6194146/story.html

The issues seams to be picking up a lot of steam with accusations of more that 40 other ridings that were hit with similar "robocalls" and voter suppression tactics during the last election.

http://www.globalnews.ca/pages/topicNew.aspx?id=6442589761

National Post:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/22/racknine-inc-fraudulent-election-calls-traced/

Globe and Mail:

One Conservative staffer has already been fired in response.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-staffer-leaves-mps-office-in-wake-of-voter-suppression-probe/article2349329/

Anyways, if any of these allegations are true, regardless of party lines, this is pretty depressing news for Canada and the electoral system.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Apparently they were getting them in my parents riding back home. Never called the house though.

A buddy of mine works for CTV and was working on this story for the local news. I told him I'd give him a dollar if he worked this video into his newscast:

http://eiznem.org/video-homer-simpsons-auto-dialer

[Cowperson]

It's a serious thing and needs to be investigated to the source, regardless of consequences.

Nevertheless, I would be surprised if it went all the way to the top.

It's one of those stupid, short-sighted tactics engaged by overly-zealous partisans that sensible people would automatically see as being inherently dangerous to their own cause when it inevitably comes to light.

Its also a great example of what a real conspiracy looks like - there are far too many people involved for it to have remained a secret for any length of time. It is one of those things that inevitably explodes in your face.

And I would think all parties, within their ranks, have stuff like this going on at some level.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

It was a bad day for the whole integrity in politics thing. The Conservatives with Robodialer, the Liberals with Vickileaks. Baird apologizing for accusing the NDP of being behind Vickiileaks.

Big apology day in the house of commons yesterday.

[Slava]

Well the Vikileaks thing pales in comparison to this. Its a bad day for integrity, granted, but knowingly trying to mislead voters is just inexcusable. I highly doubt that this is just "one guy" either. Running these calls costs money and was more coordinated than that. Couple with this the other calls in other ridings that are alleged and its a serious issue.

[CaptainCrunch]

Oh I don't disagree. But I have my doubts that this reaches the Prime Minister's office.

Hopefully they hammer the crap out of those that are respsonsible.

[GP_Matt]

Robocalls are really cheap. I think you can call an entire riding for $200 so I don't think it would be impossible for one person or a small group to decide to do it. You can breakdown past election results by polling station so it would be possible to target certain areas.
I have heard a few stories of election fraud in the past and it always seems to stem from a few overzealous supporters and not the party or candidate directly. That said, the practice is atrocious and should be investigated fully. And I say that as a supporter of the federal conservatives.
As a side, does anyone know what the potential punishment is for this? I wonder if criminal charges are possible.

[CaptainCrunch]

$5000 dollar fine, five years in jail or both

At least that's what they were talking about in the news.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Robocalls are really cheap. I think you can call an entire riding for $200 so I don't think it would be impossible for one person or a small group to decide to do it. You can breakdown past election results by polling station so it would be possible to target certain areas.
I have heard a few stories of election fraud in the past and it always seems to stem from a few overzealous supporters and not the party or candidate directly. That said, the practice is atrocious and should be investigated fully. And I say that as a supporter of the federal conservatives.
As a side, does anyone know what the potential punishment is for this? I wonder if criminal charges are possible.

Well for a robocall I used when I ran for public office, it was more than $200. Also, articles I read show that this is the same company that did the calling that the CPC was using in many ridings and was based in Edmonton....which makes you wonder how many people had knowledge of this?

I don't think for a second that Harper or his inner circle are involved. They have way bigger things to deal with than with a little scheme like this. Its not just some kid either though; way too big to just be an individual. If you have even half of the ridings alleged as involved that means about 20 ridings. Even at $200 (which I would say is nearly impossible to do that cheap), you're looking at $4000. My guess is that this is at leas closer to $10,000 if not more, but at $4000 this isn't likely to be a one-man show.

The bigger problem I have with this though is that it affects peoples right to vote. We already have low turnout figures and too much apathy, but then you have someone in a position of trust (people ask every candidate about where to vote, and whether you agree with them politically or not, you feel like they know and wouldn't mislead you on that fact!), who is willfully and knowingly giving false information. They really should be punished. If a political party had knowledge and was complicit they also should be penalised. No matter what side of the political debate you find yourself you can't look past this kind of thing.

[Rathji]

The fact that is so many ridings is what has me most concerned. One riding, and really it could be a freak occurrence of someone who just made a really stupid choice. The fact that is happened on such a large scale means someone reasonably high up in the ranks probably gave the go ahead on this one. I do agree that the party leadership was almost certainly not involved though, just far too much at risk in this if somethign went south.

[CaptainCrunch]

I really don't doubt that it went right up to Harper's office, I don't think that they felt that there was much danger of losing the election, and from the news last night a bunch of calls went through to conservative supporters.

I would really hope that Harper lets the investigation go through and they burn out the people who are responsible.

There's no place in an election period for crap like this.

I don't think it really effected the election or seat count, but it is oderous.

And I doubt it was one 23 year old who came up with this and executed it.

[burn_this_city]

The biggest shocker for me was knowing that people actually listen to these things and don't immediately hang up the phone.

[GP_Matt]

I really do hope they investigate it properly but still wouldn't be surprised to find it is only a few people. I would think that one employee working at the call center could probably set it up and with technology now I think it really is that cheap. Because they know where the calls originated I would assume that it will be easy to determine who authorized the calls and follow the trail that way. $5000 doesn't seem like much of a punishment though.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The biggest shocker for me was knowing that people actually listen to these things and don't immediately hang up the phone.

The problem though is that many of the calls on came on Election day and the automated voice claimed to be from Elections Canada. The calls were done in both English and French and had an official tone to them. The calls also originated from Canada, so off the bat there is really no indication that these were phoney calls. It's not like this was a random phone call from a guy in India in broken Queens English, there was an official tone to them and they were providing a plausible message. Which of course would easily confuse older voters, minorities or even people having an off day.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

The problem though is that many of the calls on came on Election day and the automated voice claimed to be from Elections Canada. The calls were done in both English and French and had an official tone to them. The calls also originated from Canada, so off the bat there is really no indication that these were phoney calls. It's not like this was a random phone call from a guy in India in broken Queens English, there was an official tone to them and they were providing a plausible message. Which of course would easily confuse older voters, minorities or even people having an off day.

Honestly if I got a call from Elections Canada on the day of the election (or the day before) I would listen and probably go where the new polling station was supposed to be. I consider myself pretty well versed in these things and pay attention, but if it sounds like its legit then I wouldn't expect any party to try to mislead me.

[LIP MAN]

If this is all true, it's absolutely shameful. Kind of upsets me that the thread is so short, actually. I was appalled when the Liberal scandal was revealed, as I am at this. So far, it seems like a "where there's smoke, there's fire" from what I've perused thus far.

Those numbers seem awfully close for this to be some rogue members accident. What would be the punishment if this were the case? Legally, I don't imagine they could have voters turn out in those ridings and make the changes, could they? "Neo-Cons" and "Neo-Libs" have been horrendous for this stuff Worldwide.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The biggest shocker for me was knowing that people actually listen to these things and don't immediately hang up the phone.

Why wouldn't they? It's not like a telemarketer calling you to try to sell you something. If I was called, I might not have any reason to mistrust it, unless I saw my neighbours all going to the correct voting station.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

$5000 doesn't seem like much of a punishment though.

Five years in jail sounds about right for perverting the course of a federal election.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well for a robocall I used when I ran for public office, it was more than $200. Also, articles I read show that this is the same company that did the calling that the CPC was using in many ridings and was based in Edmonton....which makes you wonder how many people had knowledge of this?

I don't think for a second that Harper or his inner circle are involved. They have way bigger things to deal with than with a little scheme like this. Its not just some kid either though; way too big to just be an individual. If you have even half of the ridings alleged as involved that means about 20 ridings. Even at $200 (which I would say is nearly impossible to do that cheap), you're looking at $4000. My guess is that this is at leas closer to $10,000 if not more, but at $4000 this isn't likely to be a one-man show.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...645/story.html

Those pre-recorded phone messages lack the personal touch but they're dirt cheap. Based on RackNine's lowest rate of 1.9 cents per minute, a one-minute call to 10,000 people would cost a client just $190.

[CaptainCrunch]

As much as the Libs want to form a committee on this, and play it for all its worth politically, I do think that the RCMP has to be allowed to continue their investigations before any kind of committee is formed.

I would expect to see more then one Conservative staffer bounced over the next few days.