Brad Treliving needs to go

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The problem with that theory is that this could probably continue for a couple years at least without it being an issue.

There's no ticket revenue right now. Television contracts are already locked in for a bit, so viewership doesn't really matter in the short term. When people are allowed to attend games, many will do so just because they are again able to do so, it won't matter how good the product is because just the experience will be enough. This could easily continue through next season and perhaps the season after before anything really happens.

And at that point, you've met the end of Ward and Treliving's contracts, so if you wanted to make a change, you could quite easily without costing yourself an extra dime.

I'm simply saying don't just look at this short-term. That's exactly how the Flames got into this mess.

If the Flames are just as lousy for the rest of the season and refuse to make changes, that will impact the bottom line. They may not see the impact in 6 months or in 12 months or in 18 months, but it will happen.

I don't know if those lost sales exceed the cost of adding new personnel, but I truly think they would. We saw how this city supported the Flames in the late 90s/early 00s.

And I'm not even somebody who wants to run Treliving out of town. That's just how I evaluate this market.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I like the attitude but this team doesn't win "way more often" than it loses. If we did, we'd probably win a playoff round every now and then.

But it does.

Playoffs are playoffs, small sample size.

The Pacific has been one of the toughest divisions to play in for almost 2 decades. It is much harder to get into playoffs for the Flames than other larger market teams.

That the Flames have been as successful as they have been in the last decade is impressive. Considering how difficult it is to attract premier FA's or be a premier trade destination and not having a sniff at a franchise draft pick, ever.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think the bigger risk for gate revenue is that fans have been away from the game for so long they may not come back anyways. It's a complete unknown from my POV.
The biggest risk to pro sports is whether fans will continue to generate gate revenue particularly as the TV experience continues to improve.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the bigger risk for gate revenue is that fans have been away from the game for so long they may not come back anyways. It's a complete unknown from my POV.
The biggest risk to pro sports is whether fans will continue to generate gate revenue particularly as the TV experience continues to improve.

Good thing the NHL has Sportsnet making sure the TV experience not only doesn't ever improve, but actually keeps getting worse!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the bigger risk for gate revenue is that fans have been away from the game for so long they may not come back anyways. It's a complete unknown from my POV.
The biggest risk to pro sports is whether fans will continue to generate gate revenue particularly as the TV experience continues to improve.

The TV experience without fans sucks.

Going to a game is fun. It’s been that way for thousands of years, and Covid isn’t killing it.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

But it does.

Playoffs are playoffs, small sample size.

The Pacific has been one of the toughest divisions to play in for almost 2 decades. It is much harder to get into playoffs for the Flames than other larger market teams.

That the Flames have been as successful as they have been in the last decade is impressive. Considering how difficult it is to attract premier FA's or be a premier trade destination and not having a sniff at a franchise draft pick, ever.

Making the playoffs 4 times in a decade is far from impressive, it’s below average

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Gotta remember though...one of the absolute musts to get to that level and stay there, you almost have to have a bonafide elite C to build around.

They had one fall in their lap with Joe Thornton and the really quite minimal cost to the Sharks to secure him.

If Calgary gets the same stroke of luck as the Sharks received, then yes i would agree and even expect a 12 year run of success similar....otherwise they have to find a different way and to this point, that hasnt been overly fruitful.

SJ was a pretty good club but when Wilson got JT and then surrounded him with good pieces acquired in various ways and bam! almost instant success.

Sure, that would be nice. But I think Sutter the coach was on his way to building that - unfortunately, Sutter the manager couldn't draft to sustain his vision, and then wound up making bad trades to fritter it away.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the bigger risk for gate revenue is that fans have been away from the game for so long they may not come back anyways. It's a complete unknown from my POV.
The biggest risk to pro sports is whether fans will continue to generate gate revenue particularly as the TV experience continues to improve.

This is one of the issues for me. I have been on the fence about renewing for the last couple of years because the Saddledome experience doesn't get better, but my TV experience does. The promise of the new arena is what has kept me in my seats until now.

However, with my already wavering commitment, the quality of the current product may well be enough to push me out.

[Enoch Root]

It's a bit of a race between having all the games in 4K, and the new building, for me.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm simply saying don't just look at this short-term. That's exactly how the Flames got into this mess.

If the Flames are just as lousy for the rest of the season and refuse to make changes, that will impact the bottom line. They may not see the impact in 6 months or in 12 months or in 18 months, but it will happen.

I don't know if those lost sales exceed the cost of adding new personnel, but I truly think they would. We saw how this city supported the Flames in the late 90s/early 00s.

And I'm not even somebody who wants to run Treliving out of town. That's just how I evaluate this market.

I agree with you for the most part. Though I think the majority of hockey fans have short memories and low expectations.

If the Flames continue to be lousy for the rest of the season and even next, that's probably enough to impact the bottom line. But if you make changes and deliver some excitement or even hope after that? They'll come back real quick.

With the way the NHL is now, I don't forsee the late 90s repeating fan-wise. Even despite what Jiri is saying, which I think is a fair point, but in the end, people will come back. Especially when you account for a new arena and wealthy owners, I think the appeal of saving money without fans is stronger than the worry that fans will be hard to come by later.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the bigger risk for gate revenue is that fans have been away from the game for so long they may not come back anyways. It's a complete unknown from my POV.
The biggest risk to pro sports is whether fans will continue to generate gate revenue particularly as the TV experience continues to improve.

A lot of the hardcore fans will come back but I think it will take years for the casual fans to come back in the numbers they were up until the Pandemic.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's a bit of a race between having all the games in 4K, and the new building, for me.

So new building then.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So new building then.

Yeah, sadly, you are probably right

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think you are right that, largely due to Sportsnet, the TV experience right now isn't great. But I see that more apparent in other sports: MLB, CFL, NFL, NBA.

(though there's nothing more I like in-person than baseball)

Just a matter of if/when the NHL (particularly in Canada) catches up.

[mrdonkey]

Just how much of the franchise's bottom line is driven by ticket revenue anyway? Someone made a good point the other day that we are not the customers, we are just rabble. Advertisers are the customers.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

A lot of the hardcore fans will come back but I think it will take years for the casual fans to come back in the numbers they were up until the Pandemic.

One easy fix for this - have some playoff success.


How quickly did casual fans join the bandwagon of the '04 run? How many stayed as permanent fans? I think that '04 team created a lot of loyal fans.


Easier said than done, but the Flames have to stop shooting themselves in the foot with these coaching hires.

[CliffFletcher]

TV ratings for all sports have been way down during the pandemic, even though people have been stuck at home watching more streaming content than ever before. Covid has accelerated the decline in popularity of pro sports altogether.

America Didn’t Need Sports After All

...Plenty of evidence suggests that sports broadcasts aren’t resonating as well with Generation Z—Americans born after 1996—as they did with previous generations. According to a recent poll, only 53 percent of Gen Zers identify as sports fans. And more troubling for networks that have invested heavily in live sports, Gen Zers are half as likely as Millennials to watch live sports regularly, and twice as likely to never watch

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sports/618157/

[Flame On]

The other thing that seems largely forgotten, is that no GM worth their salt, makes any of these decisions in a vacuum. He probably got buy-in from all the owners at each stage of his processes. So it can't be argued that his logic wasn't there when he would have needed their buy-in to spend their money. Ultimately that doesn't really matter, but it will give him a slightly longer leash.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

TV ratings for all sports have been way down during the pandemic, even though people have been stuck at home watching more streaming content than ever before. Covid has accelerated the decline in popularity of pro sports altogether.

Good thing we got that arena in just under the wire.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

TV ratings for all sports have been way down during the pandemic, even though people have been stuck at home watching more streaming content than ever before. Covid has accelerated the decline in popularity of pro sports altogether.

I think perspective doesn’t factor in the importance of seeing things live might have on driving TV viewership. Maybe it doesn’t, but you can’t look at TV viewing results in a weird time and go people are at home should be watching more but they aren’t, I guess they won’t rebound after Covid. Maybe they won’t, but that’s a big leap.

- My watching has been way down this season, why? The team is bad, and I’m not going to games which keeps me engaged. The new format is more boring, 4 games in a row bs same team is not a good thing for me. More games out easy that start before I can start watching. I can’t have people over to watch.... etc

None of those things continue post Covid. I get it there’s an equivalent list of reasons why viewership should be up. Point is, I don’t think we can draw any conclusions long term based on this weird time.