Brad Treliving needs to go

[transplant99]

Just a bit of a reality check here.

It's really really unlikely that Treliving gets the pink slip at season's end.

Even if there are some legit points being made as to why it should happen because of on-ice results, the truth of it is that ownership has bigger reasons as to why not to do so.

He is signed for 2 more seasons after the current one. His salary is likely North of 2M a year with other incentives on top of that.

That is a lot of real dollars for ownership to just eat on the heels of what is now a full calendar year of no ticket revenue, which is where this team and many others, gets into the red or the black on their bottom lines.

It seems that the ownership group has a lot of trust in BT and what he has done for them past anything that happens on ice. I imagine there will be a full review done at seasons end as there would be any other year. This one though will have different pressures on both sides though and will certainly be part of the decisions on all involved.

Adding to all that is the reality that when a new GM is hired by any club, they generally want to put their guy behind the bench and often allow that same guy to decide who wants assisting him. So there is up to 4 or 5 more salaries to consider should they clear out the GM office.

The timing of all this is key IMO and why he will not be going anywhere at this point. Maybe after the next season played it may be more of a reality but at this point? Just doesn't seem like its in the cards.

[Parallex]

Yeah, I think we should probably move on. I just don't think Treliving can build a team that will bring home a cup and if he can't do that then what's the point of keeping him around. He had a fair shot, couldn't do it. I say probably because I think he does deserve the rest of the season to prove that wrong so he could still do it... but that looks pretty unlikely right now.

Not to say he's a bad GM he seems pretty average but average isn't good enough and he's put the team into probably the most infuriating position possible... a capped out bubble team.

[Toonage]

Given the money he's wasted on coaches, buyouts and bad contracts if I were ownership I'd consider it a potential future cost savings to get rid of him now.

Pay a new GM. Pay for new head coach. Pay for a POHO. Run a tighter ship.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just a bit of a reality check here.

It's really really unlikely that Treliving gets the pink slip at season's end.

Even if there are some legit points being made as to why it should happen because of on-ice results, the truth of it is that ownership has bigger reasons as to why not to do so.

He is signed for 2 more seasons after the current one. His salary is likely North of 2M a year with other incentives on top of that.

That is a lot of real dollars for ownership to just eat on the heels of what is now a full calendar year of no ticket revenue, which is where this team and many others, gets into the red or the black on their bottom lines.

It seems that the ownership group has a lot of trust in BT and what he has done for them past anything that happens on ice. I imagine there will be a full review done at seasons end as there would be any other year. This one though will have different pressures on both sides though and will certainly be part of the decisions on all involved.

Adding to all that is the reality that when a new GM is hired by any club, they generally want to put their guy behind the bench and often allow that same guy to decide who wants assisting him. So there is up to 4 or 5 more salaries to consider should they clear out the GM office.

The timing of all this is key IMO and why he will not be going anywhere at this point. Maybe after the next season played it may be more of a reality but at this point? Just doesn't seem like its in the cards.

All of this talk of reality is at odds with the suspension of disbelief required to be a Flames fan

After next season is perfect. Gaudreau and Tkachuk can negotiate with an empty chair

[Strange Brew]

I too have serious doubts Flames ownership will replace Treliving. But it’s almost inconceivable they will allow him to hire another coach.

Does that mean we’re looking at the return of Ward? Might we see a new POHO come in?

It is a bit of a black box over there when it comes to any information from above the GM.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just a bit of a reality check here.

It's really really unlikely that Treliving gets the pink slip at season's end.

Even if there are some legit points being made as to why it should happen because of on-ice results, the truth of it is that ownership has bigger reasons as to why not to do so.

He is signed for 2 more seasons after the current one. His salary is likely North of 2M a year with other incentives on top of that.

That is a lot of real dollars for ownership to just eat on the heels of what is now a full calendar year of no ticket revenue, which is where this team and many others, gets into the red or the black on their bottom lines.

It seems that the ownership group has a lot of trust in BT and what he has done for them past anything that happens on ice. I imagine there will be a full review done at seasons end as there would be any other year. This one though will have different pressures on both sides though and will certainly be part of the decisions on all involved.

Adding to all that is the reality that when a new GM is hired by any club, they generally want to put their guy behind the bench and often allow that same guy to decide who wants assisting him. So there is up to 4 or 5 more salaries to consider should they clear out the GM office.

The timing of all this is key IMO and why he will not be going anywhere at this point. Maybe after the next season played it may be more of a reality but at this point? Just doesn't seem like its in the cards.

I agree - it is hard to imagine the organization giving Treliving and Ward their walking papers here

The flip side though, is that they have a new building opening in 3 years. If they sit on this mess for another year or two, it could force a rebuild right when they are lauching the new building - and demanding a 25% increase in ticket prices.

They are no doubt cognizant of that timing. So I don't think it is as much of a non-starter as you are suggesting.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just a bit of a reality check here.

It's really really unlikely that Treliving gets the pink slip at season's end.

Even if there are some legit points being made as to why it should happen because of on-ice results, the truth of it is that ownership has bigger reasons as to why not to do so.

He is signed for 2 more seasons after the current one. His salary is likely North of 2M a year with other incentives on top of that.

That is a lot of real dollars for ownership to just eat on the heels of what is now a full calendar year of no ticket revenue, which is where this team and many others, gets into the red or the black on their bottom lines.

It seems that the ownership group has a lot of trust in BT and what he has done for them past anything that happens on ice. I imagine there will be a full review done at seasons end as there would be any other year. This one though will have different pressures on both sides though and will certainly be part of the decisions on all involved.

Adding to all that is the reality that when a new GM is hired by any club, they generally want to put their guy behind the bench and often allow that same guy to decide who wants assisting him. So there is up to 4 or 5 more salaries to consider should they clear out the GM office.

The timing of all this is key IMO and why he will not be going anywhere at this point. Maybe after the next season played it may be more of a reality but at this point? Just doesn't seem like its in the cards.

I’m tired of hearing how the owners won’t do X because a guy has years left on his deal.

Find a different businesses then. This is pro sports.

Fire the GM. Hire someone who’s done the job before.

Hire Darryl as head coach.

Punt $20M worth of salary (easier said than done I know- long term) - you don’t need to spend $80M to finish 25th.

Billionaires got richer this year. Unless Murray is arguing he’s the stupidest billionaire on the planet, cut the academic cheque and move on.

[Wastedyouth]

I think it's amusing how much dislike of Treliving gets.

There are some real blinders going on here for the fans.

Sure, if you take Treliving in isolation and look at everything he's done, there is good and bad and this year kinda sucks, but still we aren't bottom feeders.

But my goodness, take the blinders off and look at every franchise in the league. Every GM that is employed right now has similar if not worse blunders.

Teams with significantly better luck (draft positions, UFA viability, contract leverage) have had bad years and bad stretches and have had as little or as much success as the Flames.

Maybe you're expectations are too high because you are setting an unreal expectation for a small market team? Name another small market team, that doesn't ahve a single 1st overall draft pick in club history, that doesn't have a single drafted superstar, but luck or position, that has had more success than the Flames?

You can't. They don't exist.

That doesn't mean you can't hope for more, but maybe temper your expectations, because Calgary will always be chasing the cart.

They have a lot of cards stacked against them. And if they want to have success, they will need to build from within (they have) and catch lightning in a bottle.

That is the ONLY way that Calgary is going to sit amongst the elite.

So temper your expectations and enjoy the fact that Calgary wins way more often than it loses and the team is what it is.

Wait for the lighting in a bottle and enjoy the runs. Don't let the lows get you too low. Because honestly, as a franchise, the Flames lows haven't been that low.

[Roof-Daddy]

I honestly don't don't have too many beefs about Treliving's team building.

The Hamonic trade was a massive flub, and as I've repeated many times, missing out on ROR was another massive mistake. I think at that point he and his group had way too much faith in Bennett reaching his ceiling as a top 6 C, and they had also just traded for Lindholm.

The Neal signing was a mistake in hindsight, but at the time not too many people were that upset with it. Probably should have done a better job of researching the player's rep off the ice I guess. But if he just trades for ROR he never signs Neal anyways.

He was always on the hunt for a legit #1 goalie too, ever since he got to CGY. Had Bishop, but couldn't get a hold of Ken King in time. Then as a UFA Bishop chose Dallas. He was after Freddy Andersen, but Anaheim had the price set higher for a division rival and ended up dealing him to TO.

I'm inclined to want Treliving to stay at the helm as they try to retool this mess.

My biggest beef with the guy is his coaching hires. Three straight absolute disasters, and I just don't get his thinking with this last one especially (Ward). Jiri has me thinking though with the timing now, that maybe they were after Laviolette, but if a guy doesn't want to come to CGY there is not much Tre can do about that. At least I hope that's the case anyways.

It must be frustrating as hell to be a GM in a small Canadian market. You get shut down by UFA's and NTC's way more than any US or big market based GM does. Probably get spurned by coaches the odd time too.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I think it's amusing how much dislike of Treliving gets.

There are some real blinders going on here for the fans.

Sure, if you take Treliving in isolation and look at everything he's done, there is good and bad and this year kinda sucks, but still we aren't bottom feeders.

But my goodness, take the blinders off and look at every franchise in the league. Every GM that is employed right now has similar if not worse blunders.

Teams with significantly better luck (draft positions, UFA viability, contract leverage) have had bad years and bad stretches and have had as little or as much success as the Flames.

Maybe you're expectations are too high because you are setting an unreal expectation for a small market team? Name another small market team, that doesn't ahve a single 1st overall draft pick in club history, that doesn't have a single drafted superstar, but luck or position, that has had more success than the Flames?

You can't. They don't exist.

That doesn't mean you can't hope for more, but maybe temper your expectations, because Calgary will always be chasing the cart.

They have a lot of cards stacked against them. And if they want to have success, they will need to build from within (they have) and catch lightning in a bottle.

That is the ONLY way that Calgary is going to sit amongst the elite.

So temper your expectations and enjoy the fact that Calgary wins way more often than it loses and the team is what it is.

Wait for the lighting in a bottle and enjoy the runs. Don't let the lows get you too low. Because honestly, as a franchise, the Flames lows haven't been that low.

I like the attitude but this team doesn't win "way more often" than it loses. If we did, we'd probably win a playoff round every now and then.

[Enoch Root]

and there probably wouldn't be threads about Treliving

[VladtheImpaler]

I don't want a guaranteed Cup or anything. I think the most realistic goal to strive for is the Sharks for about 15 years there until they went crazy with contracts for old guys. Basically, be in contention to finish 1st in your division every year, and by osmosis you should win some playoff rounds. I think that is what Darryl was striving for, but he got the whole "who should be coach and who should be GM" thing backwards. I think this thing would have worked if Darryl stayed as HC and hired a Treliving to implement his vision. NFL model where some coaches are effectively the boss of the GM...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, SJ had a good run. Between 2003 and 2019, they won more than they lost every year except for exactly one time. Even then, they still got 40 wins. And the coach got turfed

Compare to Calgary. They have won more than they lost 4 times since 2009-10

It’s not pretty

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, SJ had a good run. Between 2003 and 2019, they won more than they lost every year except for exactly one time. Even then, they still got 40 wins. And the coach got turfed

Compare to Calgary. They have won more than they lost 4 times since 2009-10

It’s not pretty

San Jose’s run is pretty unprecedented for a team that hasn’t drafted top-3 since 1997.

And to do it while failing to cash anything in?

Tough to replicate.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I’m tired of hearing how the owners won’t do X because a guy has years left on his deal.

Find a different businesses then. This is pro sports.

Fire the GM. Hire someone who’s done the job before.

Hire Darryl as head coach.

Punt $20M worth of salary (easier said than done I know- long term) - you don’t need to spend $80M to finish 25th.

Billionaires got richer this year. Unless Murray is arguing he’s the stupidest billionaire on the planet, cut the academic cheque and move on.

It's easy to spend other people's money. Tranny is just being realistic here, the odds of the owners canning GMs with multiple years left and who knows how much money left on their contracts are pretty low. Not impossible that they would do it, but I also don't see them signing a guy they like to a 3 year deal and then firing him a year or less into that deal. Rich people usually don't get rich by wasting money.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I don't want a guaranteed Cup or anything. I think the most realistic goal to strive for is the Sharks for about 15 years there until they went crazy with contracts for old guys. Basically, be in contention to finish 1st in your division every year, and by osmosis you should win some playoff rounds. I think that is what Darryl was striving for, but he got the whole "who should be coach and who should be GM" thing backwards. I think this thing would have worked if Darryl stayed as HC and hired a Treliving to implement his vision. NFL model where some coaches are effectively the boss of the GM...

Gotta remember though...one of the absolute musts to get to that level and stay there, you almost have to have a bonafide elite C to build around.

They had one fall in their lap with Joe Thornton and the really quite minimal cost to the Sharks to secure him.

If Calgary gets the same stroke of luck as the Sharks received, then yes i would agree and even expect a 12 year run of success similar....otherwise they have to find a different way and to this point, that hasnt been overly fruitful.

SJ was a pretty good club but when Wilson got JT and then surrounded him with good pieces acquired in various ways and bam! almost instant success.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It's easy to spend other people's money. Tranny is just being realistic here, the odds of the owners canning GMs with multiple years left and who knows how much money left on their contracts are pretty low. Not impossible that they would do it, but I also don't see them signing a guy they like to a 3 year deal and then firing him a year or less into that deal. Rich people usually don't get rich by wasting money.

It's a sunk cost at this point.

Ownership needs to evaluate whether keeping Treliving and/or Ward is better for the bottom line more than one year down the road and whether declining fan interest/ticket sales/merch sales are worth it.

I suspect if this brand of hockey continues, the Flames will have trouble selling out the Dome.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It's a sunk cost at this point.

Ownership needs to evaluate whether keeping Treliving and/or Ward is better for the bottom line more than one year down the road and whether declining fan interest/ticket sales/merch sales are worth it.

I suspect if this brand of hockey continues, the Flames will have trouble selling out the Dome.

The problem with that theory is that this could probably continue for a couple years at least without it being an issue.

There's no ticket revenue right now. Television contracts are already locked in for a bit, so viewership doesn't really matter in the short term. When people are allowed to attend games, many will do so just because they are again able to do so, it won't matter how good the product is because just the experience will be enough. This could easily continue through next season and perhaps the season after before anything really happens.

And at that point, you've met the end of Ward and Treliving's contracts, so if you wanted to make a change, you could quite easily without costing yourself an extra dime.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It's a sunk cost at this point.

Ownership needs to evaluate whether keeping Treliving and/or Ward is better for the bottom line more than one year down the road and whether declining fan interest/ticket sales/merch sales are worth it.

I suspect if this brand of hockey continues, the Flames will have trouble selling out the Dome.

After having tickets for long enough, I endured the Brent Sutter years, had a glimmer of optimism with Hartley’s overachievement, then Tre hand picked Gulutzan. It was between the Gulutzan years that I discontinued my season tix

That was when it started getting difficult to unload tix when you couldn’t make it for above STH price

I do not regret it. For my hard earned dollars, value for money isn’t there

[CrazyCaper]

Brad Treliving reminds me alot of our current director at the company I work for. He came in with a reputation as a guy who gets things done. At first, he came across as someone who listened to our ideas and appreciated what we each brought to the table. Now, after 2.5yrs, it's been all smoke and mirrors. He has nothing but idiotic ideas and gives us tasks without any guidance or insight as to how we could actually achieve his forecasted results. Everyone has check out and the morale is at an all-time low.