[PGT] Flames lay an absolute egg, lose to Sens 5-2

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Ownership needs to give Treliving permission to go after Gallant with a good offer if they want what's best for the club at this point. I don't think you need to change the associates.

Was just reading a post-firing interview with Gallant here:
https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/sports...firing-400014/

Seems like he and his prime assistant are joined at the hip...so if the Flames want Gallant, they're also hiring Mike Kelly. Not sure how they'd fit all those bodies in now...though I guess Gelly can go back to the eye in the sky role.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

they just can't score enough goals because they don't have enough goal scorers.

It sounds stupidly simple, but there it is. You put a goal scorer or two on this roster and they have a positive differential.

It's really that simple.

It should be that simple but with this lineup I don’t agree that it would be. I fear that you have to consider the risk of another scorer coming in and having a Neal like nosedive.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Awful, especially considering that this team is about to go on a longer then week break and couldn't muster a good effort in 2 of the 3 games.


As much as we want to blame the coaches, this is on the core leadership on the team, they're the ones that have to be demanding and urging greater efforts.



The biggest shock that they could do is strip Gio of the captaincy, and I'm not sure that I'm there, but I've coached and played enough sports to know that its the veteran core group that drives the team.



After the high of the Edmonton win, this is definitely a low.


And no the calls to trade Johnny are silly, first of all, we're not going to get great value from him with his struggles this year. Second of all, its not time to rebuild.


This team needs leadership from somewhere, and this is professional hockey there should be some kind of self motivation happening from the players, but its not.


This team should be far better then it is.

Gaudreau will still have massive trade value despite his struggles

Trading him does not equal rebuilding, not sure why people assume that. It’s a terrible assumption

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

they just can't score enough goals because they don't have enough goal scorers.

It sounds stupidly simple, but there it is. You put a goal scorer or two on this roster and they have a positive differential.

It's really that simple.

I actually disagree with this. I think a lot of the flames troubles are quietly due to a worse d this year. Giordano has been hot garbage. Plays along the boards to break up a cycle quickly last year, just aren't there. He's losing a ton of one on one battles defensively resulting in more time trying to recover the puck. Our second pair is atrocious. They suck at everything. Why that pair sticks is just so stupid by our coaches. pure gulutzan coaching. If it's broke, why fix it?!

A lot of lack of strong d play has resulted in less quick transition, massive amount of d zone time. As the flames close out the season, they would be better served in figuring out the GA than cheating for more GF.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Gaudreau will still have massive trade value despite his struggles

Trading him does not equal rebuilding, not sure why people assume that. It’s a terrible assumption

Not sure it triggers a rebuild or not, but I do assume that the return may be higher value if it's built on futures (High round picks, and blue chip prospects) rather than roster players. I just don't see a situation where gaudreau gets you an equal forward back. I really don't want a quantity return on gaudreau (2nd liner + depth players).

As such, the stronger return is likely for pieces that are impact players years from now. At least that's my hunch.

[Psytic]

Need some more change of scenery swaps. If we can pull off a few more Lindholm type deals its not a loss or a rebuild.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Not sure it triggers a rebuild or not, but I do assume that the return may be higher value if it's built on futures (High round picks, and blue chip prospects) rather than roster players. I just don't see a situation where gaudreau gets you an equal forward back. I really don't want a quantity return on gaudreau (2nd liner + depth players).

As such, the stronger return is likely for pieces that are impact players years from now. At least that's my hunch.

Even if Gaudreau is best traded for futures Treliving can then use those futures to trade for immediate help. Draft picks and prospects are currency. Gaudreau will have high value.

And even futures deals sometimes work out pretty good in the short run. How long did it take Voracek and Couturier to pass Carter in on ice impact? Not very long.

Look at the Carter deal. Look at the Richards deal. Johnny May have more value than either of them had.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They could certainly use more talent, no doubt.

But the same roster was 2nd last year in scoring, so it's deeper than that. The players they have have for the most part taken a step back. It didn't happen with Ward coming in, it didn't happen in October. It seemed to happen in February last year.

I think some of that was converting last year over their heads, but there's more going on.

But adding more talent certainly wouldn't hurt.

I agree.

Everything was in alignment last year. When the stars align, you gotta go for it.

This year, same team, a year older, better goaltending, nothing seems to be going right.

So when a team goes from 27th in league scoring, to 2nd, and then to 25th, I think it's an indication that the 2nd place finish was the anomaly and the team doesn't have enough scoring talent. The same deficiencies still exist on the roster. Right handed top 6 finishers.

Gaudreau going nuclear last year and scoring 30 even strength goals is basically like having another 20 goal scorer on the roster.

Last season between the beginning of the season and the all star break the flames were 9th in even strength goal scoring with 108 goals. This season they are 29th with 82 goals.

Last season between the start and the all star game, Gaudreau had 24 of his 30 even strength goals. 2nd in the league behind ovechkin's 27.

This year Gaudreau has 14 less even strength goals. 88th in the league. Tied with...Tyler Toffoli.

There's your scoring deficit and goal differential right there.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by timbit

Or like Dallas, Columbus and NYI, who also have scoring issues, you play better defence.

One or the other...or improvement in both areas.

I think there's an adage that you can't teach offense, and I think to a large degree you also need the right personnel to play defense.

The flames are not built to be a defensive team. They can certainly improve their defensive game, don't get me wrong, but I don't think you can effectively coach this collection of players to play hard defensive hockey. Physical deficiencies like size and skating ability come into play, as well as the obvious mental reluctance.

When the lead horses won't pull in the same direction, the (tka)chuckwagon isn't going to be out in front of the pack.

[timbit]

Still goes back to the Flames best players playing better than the other teams best players.

It’s the determining factor in almost every game.

Far too often this season the other team has won that battle.

They were invisible, except for the blatant turnovers, against Ottawa and Montreal.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Even if Gaudreau is best traded for futures Treliving can then use those futures to trade for immediate help. Draft picks and prospects are currency. Gaudreau will have high value.

And even futures deals sometimes work out pretty good in the short run. How long did it take Voracek and Couturier to pass Carter in on ice impact? Not very long.

Look at the Carter deal. Look at the Richards deal. Johnny May have more value than either of them had.

Before trading Carter Philly had won 6 playoff series in 4 years. Since trading them they have won one playoff series (The first season after the trade)

In the last 7 years they have missed 4 times and lost first round 3.

So you can trade your core players, but it doesn't mean the team is better.

[oldschoolcalgary]

how many players had career years last year?

a lot of pundits suggested Calgary was going to drop a little simply because that wasn't going to be repeatable... now, i don't think ppl thought drop off would be this significant, but at this point I don't believe that this team can get out of their scoring doldrums by expecting the answer to come out of the room.

They need a boost and that is going to have to come from outside.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1218604592360853504

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1218604592360853504

It's a miracle they are close to the top of the division with most forwards having poor seasons and Gio regressing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a miracle they are close to the top of the division with most forwards having poor seasons and Gio regressing.

If nothing else they can treat the rest of the season like a game where you find yourself undeservedly in a tie after two periods, and give it your all in the third.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a miracle they are close to the top of the division with most forwards having poor seasons and Gio regressing.

Thank the fact that they play in the worse division in the NHL with zero elite teams.


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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Thank the fact that they play in the worse division in the NHL with zero elite teams.


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Blues are the only team in the west that has pulled away

[calgaryfox]

I'm going to follow 23 and 13's mantra and I'm going to go to work 2 days out of 5. My GAD meter is low, but my complete lack of effort or commitment with not be addressed by management and I fully expect to be paid as normal....right???

[alnigi]

Giordano, Gaudreau and Monahan ought to be leading this team forward currently. Lindholm and Tkachuk are fantastic additions. Along with goaltending from Rittich and Talbot.
The team culture is out of synch. It appears there is no confidence and in turn comradeship (or vice versa) amongst the players. This team currently doesn't need a new winger or whatever to solve problems. They may not find that cohesive core but unless they do, and start doing something about it soon, which they are totally capable of, it's looking ugly.
Are these guys willing to commit passionately and long enough to be on the same page and come together,
We know what they're capable of.

[GS Skier]

Read 4 pages of these comments and don't see any trends or agreements on anything! That's the way it should be.

Lots of "no passion"..."laid an egg" ..."don't give a crap".

We like Lucic and his size, we like it when Bennett and Tkachuk "play with passion" we like Rinaldo because he brings "passion" to the game.

We beat Edmonton with "passion". We had "no interest" against Ottawa. Now be honest and substitute "Passion" with "Physical" because thats what we really mean. Against the Oilers our guys threw solid hits and the big guys led the way. Against Ottawa their attitude seemed to be "We'll beat them with skill".

I saw the so called hit count against Ottawa and I don't remember any real meaningful space opening heads up creating physical play.