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Old 01-19-2020, 05:01 PM   #281
GreenLantern2814
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The lack of a true #1 C falls on the Bennett pick.

Him not panning out really screwed up this rebuild attempt. It's still salvageable with some moves, but the current roster may be in cup contending position if Bennett lived up to his potential.
Lindholm isn't a #1C?

Lindholm
Monahan
Backlund
Ryan

That's good centre depth.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:03 PM   #282
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Lindholm isn't a #1C?

This is the winner. And for some reason the Flames don't use him as such.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:15 PM   #283
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If Bennett had become even a 60 pt center or a 60 pt hard nosed right winger we'd be laughing.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:19 PM   #284
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A top 5 forward pick should at the very least be able to go out and put up around 20 goals and 40+ points every year. Anything less than that is a massive failure.

Go back and look at previous drafts. You won't find many top 5 forward selections who have put up numbers as pitiful as Bennett's. It's a huge reason why Calgary is where they are currently...middling.
What is funny is we were all so happy when Sam fell to us at #4. He was touted as a 1st overall pick on some draft cards. We got an awesome player who was going to lead us from the hinterland. Too bad he couldn’t even produce to the same level as Fail Yakupov. Just a massive disappointment from a player with so much hype. He was supposed to be the next Doug Gilmour. Turns out he plays hockey like David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:25 PM   #285
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What is funny is we were all so happy when Sam fell to us at #4. He was touted as a 1st overall pick on some draft cards. We got an awesome player who was going to lead us from the hinterland. Too bad he couldn’t even produce to the same level as Fail Yakupov. Just a massive disappointment from a player with so much hype. He was supposed to be the next Doug Gilmour. Turns out he plays hockey like David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.


How do you know Mr David Gilmour can’t shoot a rocket?


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Old 01-19-2020, 05:33 PM   #286
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David Gilmour was so good at hockey that he was forcibly removed from competing and had to take on music full time, as to not make Gretzky feel like a failure.

Strangely, the great David Gilmour didn't come into his own as a hockey player until his 25th birthday. Five days later, and 25 points in the 3 games of what would later become the Spengler tournament, he was gone from the sport forever.

Will Bennett ever play a day over his 25th birthday? Not if the Calgary Flames Fans "Buy Sam a Guitar" initiative is successful.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:41 PM   #287
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I’m with the small trade camp ASAP. Or relative small trade. Whatever it takes to find a mostly permanent top line, not the placeholder that’s been Backlund the last 7 weeks, and see how that goes before the trade deadline, in giving the team a boost and JG and SM, specifically.

People demanding blood because of how last year ended because of how last year started. 90% of that roster is still here.

For some perspective, Tampa was no better than us last playoffs, nor the beginning of this season, and only an 8 and 2 run right now has them better than us...and they didn’t have a change of coach to have to work through 2 months into the season, a coach which is not the permanent coach, and that factor too needs to be addressed to give the roster that stability. But are Tampa thinking of retooling the whole core come summer as some desire is here?

Yes, JG and SM have been struggling. Treliving tried at the trade deadline and in the summer to address it, and or a second line to help support the top line, falling short, and now the assets he tried to use then have fallen off themselves.

You owe JG and SM the opportunity to play with a player they fit with like they had in Lindholm last year. If Lindholm is going to go with MT on a second line, you need to find them a guy that JG and SM gell with, because their skill and scoring ability as individuals come out with having 2 linemates that can work together. Should JG not have special treatment and instead adapt to whoever he plays with? Sure, to a point, but he’s also needing players he works well with to get the most out of himself.

You don’t throw a third line center with them for 6 weeks, someone who doesn’t complement their style, while being in an early season slump, and then run with that setup the rest of the season. Backlund is a fish out of water in that line...stats prove it, as does the sight test, he doesn’t know what to do with the puck, he’s often option 4 for JG and SM on the rush. That line is completely disjointed instead of a solid 3 man unit.

That top line drove the team last year and gave the rest of the roster, including d men jumping up, the confidence to take over games the first 3/4 of the year. The top line is rudderless right now and that causes other holes in the lineup to be more glaring. As importantly, the team doesn’t have the confidence or swagger, which is an important intangible as individuals and as a team.

If we’re giving Sam Bennett the benefit of the doubt for years, I think you have to give JG more time then this season, especially what he’s been given the past two months, to turn things around.

JG doesn’t need a top line winger, take 2016 and 2017 Ferland who was a finisher, as a much preferable option with a player in Backlund who has the 3 of them all regressing as players/production.

Bottom line, Treliving needs to shoot his shot ASAP to get the top line solidified and a guy thet SM and JG can work with and blossom with, and Backlund then moved down the lineup. Ideally it happens fairly soon so further assessment can be done in the preceding month to see if there is more to be added at the trade deadline at the end of Feb...and a bad funk of multiple months doesn’t mean you jettison our top 2 player, just as I doubt Tampa has wondered about ditching Stamkos.

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Old 01-19-2020, 05:49 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Lindholm isn't a #1C?

Lindholm
Monahan
Backlund
Ryan

That's good centre depth.
Elias is good, and he is being used as a centre, but it hasn't led to as productive results for the line as you would like. He's not a star centre, that can control the game. Tkachuk and Lindholm alone aren't explosive enough to make due without a RW who has the offensive touch themselves. If there was an adequate top six RW with them, this line might be doing a lot better. It's why I feel a retool would be adequate since what they have now can still work if they switch the core up a bit, but keep the centres.

Flames with Lindholm and Monahan as the top 6 C's would be fine if they can find two top six RW's to play with them. Therefore there would be enough talent from each individual player that it should work. But since that's not the case currently since there's the lack of a consistent impact player on the top 6 from the centre and winger depth. Backlund and Mangi are not the answer.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:51 PM   #289
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For some perspective, Tampa was no better than us last playoffs, nor the beginning of this season, and only an 8 and 2 run right now has them better than us...and they didn’t have a change of coach to have to work through 2 months into the season, a coach which is not the permanent coach, and that factor too needs to be addressed to give the roster that stability. But are Tampa thinking of retooling the whole core come summer as some desire is here?
Tampa playoff success since 2015:
2015 sc finals, 2016 conference finals, 2018 conference finals. If we had anywhere close to that record we wouldn't be having this conversation. This current core has been together all of this time and we have won what 1 or 2 playoff games?
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:56 PM   #290
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Tampa playoff success since 2015:
2015 sc finals, 2016 conference finals, 2018 conference finals. If we had anywhere close to that record we wouldn't be having this conversation. This current core has been together all of this time and we have won what 1 or 2 playoff games?
I don't like that we're using Tampa as a basis of comparison because of this. Tampa has had a string of being competitive for a period of time now. This season has been more of a anomaly compared to previous. Flames do not relate to Tampa at all in comparison. How the Flames are presently is more in line with their past several seasons, mediocre. As Flash has said, last season was an anomaly.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:14 PM   #291
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What is funny is we were all so happy when Sam fell to us at #4. He was touted as a 1st overall pick on some draft cards. We got an awesome player who was going to lead us from the hinterland. Too bad he couldn’t even produce to the same level as Fail Yakupov. Just a massive disappointment from a player with so much hype. He was supposed to be the next Doug Gilmour. Turns out he plays hockey like David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.
I made fun of my Oiler fan friends for taking the deceptively skilled overgrown man-child Draisatl at #3 while the better Sam fell to the Flames at #4.

I have eaten so much hat over the years for that.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:21 PM   #292
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I made fun of my Oiler fan friends for taking the deceptively skilled overgrown man-child Draisatl at #3 while the better Sam fell to the Flames at #4.

I have eaten so much hat over the years for that.
At least we got Tkachuk over Puljujarvi i guess... Although Draisaitl over Bennett would have changed the whole course of this franchise. Who knows maybe we wouldnt have done the Lindholm trade if we had Drai and would be right in the same spot.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:24 PM   #293
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This is the winner. And for some reason the Flames don't use him as such.
Huh? I think he's been the number one center for about a month
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:47 PM   #294
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At least we got Tkachuk over Puljujarvi i guess... Although Draisaitl over Bennett would have changed the whole course of this franchise. Who knows maybe we wouldnt have done the Lindholm trade if we had Drai and would be right in the same spot.
Yes, my closer Oiler friends are usually pretty humble about passing over Tkachuk for Pulitryandspellit.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:17 PM   #295
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It's pretty concerning that were banking on someone like Tyler Toffoli to get Monahan and Gaudreau going. If these guys can't get themselves going the team is in major trouble. These are the guys that should be leading the team. Don't see a deep playoff run otherwise.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:54 AM   #296
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People said the same thing about Ryan O'Reilly after he was moved by Buffalo to St. Louis. What was St. Louis thinking? Turns out that with the right mix of talent and style of play that certain players will just click. I think Toffoli is a guy that would really compliment Monahan and Gaudreau and turn that line around. Also, the cascade effect of pushing other players back into the roles they are best suited to makes the rest of the team stronger.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:01 AM   #297
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Yes, my closer Oiler friends are usually pretty humble about passing over Tkachuk for Pulitryandspellit.
Vancouver fans should probably be more upset than Edm fans on this one.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:28 AM   #298
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I don't like that we're using Tampa as a basis of comparison because of this. Tampa has had a string of being competitive for a period of time now. This season has been more of a anomaly compared to previous. Flames do not relate to Tampa at all in comparison. How the Flames are presently is more in line with their past several seasons, mediocre. As Flash has said, last season was an anomaly.
Tampa is still 5th overall in win percentage and will likely win their division and possibly the Presidents Cup again. They just took off the first 25 games because they are trying to pace themselves this year. The Flames have never had a game plan to become an elite contender like that, trading multiple top 60 picks a year after you are blown out in the first round and has a core under the age of 24 at the time is a move done by a team that just wants to make it, not a team that wants to be a contender year in and year out.

This team, this year, should be good enough to make the playoffs and get a couple home dates in the playoffs. Hard to see them contend for a Cup right now, but that has been the state of the Flames for 27 years or so now. I guess somebody could ask why we can never get a GM who has the ability to put together a team on paper that objective fans could think is a Cup contender, but regardless it is the state of affairs for Flames fans now and seemingly in perpetuity.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:28 AM   #299
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People said the same thing about Ryan O'Reilly after he was moved by Buffalo to St. Louis. What was St. Louis thinking? Turns out that with the right mix of talent and style of play that certain players will just click. I think Toffoli is a guy that would really compliment Monahan and Gaudreau and turn that line around. Also, the cascade effect of pushing other players back into the roles they are best suited to makes the rest of the team stronger.
My best guess is Brad has Toffoli as his fall back option and will absolutely get him if his other plans don't work out. He's likely looking for a younger, cost controlled top 6 player for the future and his willing to pay the price to get him, and I bet the player will surprise a lot of fans (as in someone no one was talking about).

Then if that doesn't work he'll grab Toffoli, as a pending UFA.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:30 AM   #300
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Still think his interest is Saad. Under contract, around 27/28 years old. Not a lot different than Zucker, his last target around this time.

Also Chicago will be looking to shed cap and might be interested in moving that contract.
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