Milan Lucic's most frequent line combo last season was Lucic - Kyle Brodziak - Zack Kassian. Gee, I wonder why he only had six goals.
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You could maybe make an argument around Lucic being able to fit in better on the Flames because they are a strong possession team and he's only effective in the offensive end of the rink.
The argument that Lucic wasn't given good enough line mates in Edmonton to be effective is a false narrative though.
The argument that Lucic wasn't given good enough line mates in Edmonton to be effective is a false narrative though.
Just about every player in Edmonton who is not on the first line has the problem with not having good enough linemates. Also, seeing how Alex Chiasson is actually on the first line, having linemates not good enough is even a problem at the top end of the roster.
Of course it's a big difference being a role player alongside for example Ryan and Mangiapane, as opposed to alongside Brodziak and Kassian. That said, it's definately not at all certain that Lucic will raise his game to any great heights in Calgary. There are a very long list of examples of, and a lot of reasons to why, players leave Edmonton and suddenly have much greater success on their new teams though. You would have a very hard time convincing anyone that THAT is a false narrative.
No. 40-45 points will be a massive bonus but one he's only going to have any chance of getting if he's on the 1st line. But if he is a 1st line regular on this team, that's not likely going to be a good thing.
Anything above 25 points will be a nice bonus for Looch actually.
Honestly I would love to see Lucic and Tkachuk on the same line and I think it's fair to say Tkachuk and Backlund can make a 2nd line look like a look like a 1b line. Just need Backlund to provide some proper offense to this season.
But seriously, Michael Frolik managed 34 points and was nearly invisible in the playoffs on a line with Tkachuk and Backlund (he did have injuries, yes he only played 65 games). Still the point remains, if we can get someone to click on that 2nd line, we can have a SOLID top 6 for next year.
And personally I think having Lucic with Tkachuk will allow Matt to open his game up more. Knowing he doesn't have to be a #### disturber, and be the "tough guy" at the same time could benefit him in the way Lucic allowed Bergeron to play his own game.
Patrice Bergeron averaged 22 PIM on a line with Lucic for 6 seasons. And the time after Lucic switching lines and leaving Boston, Bergeron is averaging 34 PIM. Not insane I know, but I'm just saying there is a pattern of Lucic allowing the player's around him to feel more comfortable on the ice. Check his stats on any team* Boston or LA with his linemates.
I did not like the Neal for Lucic trade originally, but honestly there was nothing Neal was going to provide for our top 6 that Lucic wouldn't. At worst he gets shuffled to the Bottom 6 and provides a mean, veteran presence for players like Mangiapane, Jankowski or Dube.
So if the guy breaks 30 points this year for me that's a win.
Also Lucic is an ironman. Neal and Lucic are both 31 years old. Lucic has missed 7 games (1 game suspension) in the last 6 seasons. Neal has missed 80 games in the same amount of time.
The expectations that come with a huge contract are often too much for players.
Milan Lucic was signed to be Semenko to McDavid's Gretzky. He could only be signed in the first place because Chiarelli traded Taylor Hall for a 2nd pairing defenseman.
I don't know about you all, but I would really hate Milan Lucic if my team gave up an MVP for 34 points and "physical presence".
The Flames didn't trade an MVP for Lucic. They traded Handsomer Troy Brouwer.
79+ games, throws 200+ hits and tee up a few Wild for slashing Johnny's hands while putting up 25ish points is production. It's expensive production, but it's not nothing.
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Yup ^ seen enough post-Oilers success stories (even consistently so) to count out the reasonable possibility of some kind of statistical rebound. Now we're not talking 50 points and I'd expect nothing near that, but eclipsing the 20 points mustered with fringe nhlers should be doable with two guys that play more like middle sixers that frequently drive possession. If he makes space for those guys then they're going to have a great season for themselves, just as they did exceedingly well when Hathaway brought a physical presence.
I don't think the flames need him to be a "reclamation project" in that they need him to go back to being a 50-60 point player.
They need him to be involved, win battles, be nasty, get into all the scrums and help build another layer of a "tough to play against" identity to the team. That's the target, at least for me. We don't need a point producing Lucic, and the flames aren't going to be putting him in high offensive situations (top 6, pp time).
If he can do that, he's far better than anything we ever got from James Neal, and is actually more of what this team needs to grow to the next level, more so than a 20 goal scorer (in my opinion).
This. So much. In the 2000’s 319 goals is the most goals scored in a season (last year by Tampa). We scored 289 the same year. Both of these teams were bounced in the first round with ONE combined win between them.
We were not one 20 or 30 goal scorer away from any kind of Playoff success. We have a solid top 6 who are going to produce most of your offence. There is limited minutes on the ice and limited shots to be taken. Our offence was not our issue. The problem was we had next to no push back when a bigger badder team came calling. 6’1 190 lb Bennett was our guy to answer the call all season and I loved that he was willing to step up to that but we needed more fire power in that department. Of that I have no doubt.
Now I obviously would of rather had a cheaper option but Neal was dead weight and in a anchor for anchor trade at least what we got back was in an area of need rather then a guy who needs to be gifted minutes to get you any results which he couldn’t even do that last year.
I don't think the flames need him to be a "reclamation project" in that they need him to go back to being a 50-60 point player.
They need him to be involved, win battles, be nasty, get into all the scrums and help build another layer of a "tough to play against" identity to the team. That's the target, at least for me. We don't need a point producing Lucic, and the flames aren't going to be putting him in high offensive situations (top 6, pp time).
If he can do that, he's far better than anything we ever got from James Neal, and is actually more of what this team needs to grow to the next level, more so than a 20 goal scorer (in my opinion).
Agreed but man it would be delicious if Lucic put up say 14-15-29 next year while Neal had another 7-12-19 season.
Just about every player in Edmonton who is not on the first line has the problem with not having good enough linemates. Also, seeing how Alex Chiasson is actually on the first line, having linemates not good enough is even a problem at the top end of the roster.
Of course it's a big difference being a role player alongside for example Ryan and Mangiapane, as opposed to alongside Brodziak and Kassian. That said, it's definately not at all certain that Lucic will raise his game to any great heights in Calgary. There are a very long list of examples of, and a lot of reasons to why, players leave Edmonton and suddenly have much greater success on their new teams though. You would have a very hard time convincing anyone that THAT is a false narrative.
I think the point was that he ended up with bad line mates because he wasn't good enough when he played with the good ones. No doubt the Flames' bottom six is superior to the Oilers' so he may get better results, but the notion that he was dragged down by his linemates is a weak one. He earned those linemates.
The expectations that come with a huge contract are often too much for players.
Milan Lucic was signed to be Semenko to McDavid's Gretzky. He could only be signed in the first place because Chiarelli traded Taylor Hall for a 2nd pairing defenseman.
I don't know about you all, but I would really hate Milan Lucic if my team gave up an MVP for 34 points and "physical presence".
The Flames didn't trade an MVP for Lucic. They traded Handsomer Troy Brouwer.
79+ games, throws 200+ hits and tee up a few Wild for slashing Johnny's hands while putting up 25ish points is production. It's expensive production, but it's not nothing.
Yeah, I do agree that when an anchor contract gets traded, it sort of absolves some of the expectations/pressure from the player. We didn’t sign him for 6m, we had a terrible contract and are hoping he’s an upgrade on Neal. Big difference in expectations between being a 6mil new signing, and being an upgrade on the worst forward who was gifted opportunities on the team.
I think the point was that he ended up with bad line mates because he wasn't good enough when he played with the good ones. No doubt the Flames' bottom six is superior to the Oilers' so he may get better results, but the notion that he was dragged down by his linemates is a weak one. He earned those linemates.
Why can't it be both? Lucic did not perform well enough to play up the lineup, and the exceptionally poor quality of his line mates exacerbated his underwhelming performance.
No one in Calgary imagines that Lucic will get anywhere near the top six, but the Flames overall depth is certainly going to help him to be better. It's silly for an Oilers fan to point out that Lucic was not good enough to play on McDavid's line, since we in Calgary already accept that and don't need him to play there.
That is really the biggest difference here: the Oilers needed Lucic to be an effective top-six forward. The Flames do not.
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Dont care if Neal is a top 6 winger for the Oilersthay means they would have 3 top 6 fws as opposed to their previous number of only 2.
I still think Neal is the real deal, just didnt pan out here for a long list of reasons. And even though that ship has sailed I was more than willing to see what he could do with one more season with Cgy.
But, with how Neal played last year all we need is for Lucic to be better than the Flames version of Neal. Not a high bar.
I think the point was that he ended up with bad line mates because he wasn't good enough when he played with the good ones. No doubt the Flames' bottom six is superior to the Oilers' so he may get better results, but the notion that he was dragged down by his linemates is a weak one. He earned those linemates.
Even with "bad" linemates, Lucic still managed to finish 6th among Oiler forwards in scoring which really speaks to their lack of depth more so than anything else. But with 3rd/4th line minutes, I think Lucic managed to muster up a respectable position in the Oilers line up.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I think Lucic will do great this coming season. He's the type of player who can't necessarily drive play himself, but with the 2nd highest scoring team in the league, I could see his production improving. I've watched a few Oiler games this summer, specifically just for Lucic's shifts and I have to say, he is not a bad player. Definitely overpaid, but still very effective. When I did the same for James Neal, I saw an overpaid and ineffective player.
The trade should ultimately benefit both teams I think.
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The hilarious part is now the Oilers need James Neal to be a top 6 forward.
Good luck with all that.
McDavid can turn junk into gold. I don't think Neal could've asked for a better center than McDavid. A guy who can draw double teams and find open teammates ala Neal. I think that's where Neal is most effective, when he's open and free to unleash his shot. Too bad he's terrible everywhere else.
My hope is he actually hurts McDavid's game especially on the defensive end so it ends up being a wash. So if Neal ends up netting 20-30 goals, maybe McDavid ends up as a minus player.
McDavid can turn junk into gold. I don't think Neal could've asked for a better center than McDavid. A guy who can draw double teams and find open teammates ala Neal. I think that's where Neal is most effective, when he's open and free to unleash his shot. Too bad he's terrible everywhere else.
My hope is he actually hurts McDavid's game especially on the defensive end so it ends up being a wash. So if Neal ends up netting 20-30 goals, maybe McDavid ends up as a minus player.
It won't take much. He was only a +3 last year, with 83 ES or SH points.
That said, I'm not sure that McDavid's pace is a good match for Neal. McDavid can only pass to the open guy if he's made it into the zone.
