Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

Ken King really irritates me. The way he kept smirking in the presser..

Right after saying "I think we can all agree on that" too.

Such a hateable personality.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I just don't buy it.

If they didn't like the message but liked what else he brought they would trot out a different messenger.

If they didn't like the message and didn't like what else he brought, they would can him.

Who on Earth stays in their job prominently in the public eye representing their bosses if their bosses think they are doing a bad job.

Even Spicer was canned.

It isn't king that sucks here, it is the proposal. He's not driving the boat on hundreds of millions in liability. It is impossible to defend the ownership position on this without looking like Katz looked in Edmonton.

If the owners were concerned about how they would appear asking for the Edmonton deal they should have considered how Katz looked getting off the plane in Seattle with Gretz.

Even if one disagrees on how bad the proposal is - I think everyone (even those who want a rink and would support public funding) would agree that the presentation has been stunningly bad.
So if King is indeed simply the mouthpiece of Edwards, even then, I would have to think Edwards is thinking about whether someone else would do a better job of putting forth a compelling argument, even if it is shining a turd.
I would argue that right now King is making the Flames proposal somehow seem EVEN worse than it is.
The best thing that could happen at this point is some new faces at the bargaining table - particularly from the Flames.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by JackJack

What amazes me is the contrast between the GM and CEO.

1) Treliving - one of the top 5 GM's in the NHL. Great temperament and disposition, always seemingly in control, and in tune with his surroundings and the City.
2) Ken King - absolutely tone deaf.

and they very nearly lost Treliving due to a stupid philosophy about negotiating. These guys for their billions in business earnings are just not good hockey minds. I think we all need to remove the assumption good businessman = good hockey mind, or even good at hockey decisions

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The Flames have under-estimated the power of renderings and good design from the start. Renderings, if done well, get people excited and shift focus from hard facts to softer narratives that you can sell. It's important especially when your financial proposals are dubious at best.

As the wise business man Cosmo Kramer once said, you don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. It's doubly true when your steak is slightly rancid chuck.

They are talking about this again on the FAN960, but maybe this is where there is still room for this process to move forward. IF the team does actually release the details and renderings of their arena as promised for next week this could quickly set a tonne more pressure on the city.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

King is such a tool. Hard to agree with anything the Flames say when this smug, bumbling chump represents them.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

and they very nearly lost Treliving due to a stupid philosophy about negotiating. These guys for their billions in business earnings are just not good hockey minds. I think we all need to remove the assumption good businessman = good hockey mind, or even good at hockey decisions

What if hockey IS the business?

[EM11]

Ken King is such a clown. Everyone knows he's a mouth piece, but he's a bad one.

It's hard to believe he was making hockey decisions until pretty recently. This gives you some insight into how things got done.

Send Conroy in. He can reach a deal.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

and they very nearly lost Treliving due to a stupid philosophy about negotiating...

I am not convinced of this.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by TopChed

You don't think the popular opinion influences the city councilors? Especially with them timing this public debate right before a municipal election? If Calgarians were completely on the side of the Flames, they would have much more leverage to work with in their negotiations. As it stands, there isn't a lot they can work with.

What incentive do they have when 30% vote?

[saillias]

Freeway or anyone else who would know, question for you: Who asked the first question? She sounded quite young. She straight up asked "why don't the billionaire owners pay for it" and she's my hero.

[Locke]

I just couldnt believe it when he started talking about the Roman Coliseum.

That one was a literal 'Jaw-Dropper.'

I couldnt believe he was serious.

[belsarius]

The threat of leaving is just so hollow. If the Flames organization left Calgary there would be half a dozen owners in line to move their team to this market with that arena deal. Or even more likely they would get expansion money for a new team to come in. You want to own an NHL team and one of the strongest markets is left wide open, you jump on that.. if someone can make Winnipeg work, someone will fill the void here before this organization has even finished packing.

[frodo_t_baggins]

There is so much crap being spewed right now. King and Bettman lead the week off saying that a new arena would be incredibly lucrative and we would never be able to compete with Edmonton on the ice without one, dubiously linking revenue and on ice performance. After Nenshi shares the city proposals and that the property tax would be around $5mil/year, King states that between property tax and the ticket tax the flames would be paying for 120% of the project and that the flames would be better off staying in the dome. Somehow, all this extra money from this incredibly lucrative arena Bettman was talking about cannot afford a property tax. And looking at what they pay for the likes of Troy Brouwer, $5mil/year is a drop in the bucket for CSEC, so why is this property tax such a disastrous cost?

There's a lot of lies going around, and I suspect most of it is King. Whenever someone asks for an explanation or challenges him on something, he likes to use the phrase "our interpretation", something someone does when caught cheating at a board game and the rulebook gets taken out.

This week has been a black mark on the franchise.

[Benched]

Oh no, King's presentation has been leaked!

You can tell he spent a lot of time on this, it's well thought out and due to all the details you know they've been working on this since what Ron, 2005? 2006?

Spoiler!

*thanks Finger Cookin!*

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Benched

*embedding not working for me....not sure how to do it *

Use the direct link when copying from imgur, or the image address. Not the link to the imgur page.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You are an incredible shill.

He doesn't live here. He's not spending his own money. He can afford to be generous.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by saillias

Freeway or anyone else who would know, question for you: Who asked the first question? She sounded quite young. She straight up asked "why don't the billionaire owners pay for it" and she's my hero.

I believe it was Carrie Tait of the Globe. She's a great reporter.

[ynwa03]

I like how this whole issue has been framed as the Flames on one side and the City on the other. There is no "The City." The City is the sum of all the citizen. The Flames can say all they want that a 1/3 deal is them paying 100%, but in reality, the portion of public funding is from the citizens of Calgary (involuntary to most), the ticket tax is from the citizens of Calgary (voluntary - those who go to arena events), that leaves 1/3 for the Flames. There is no City and the Flames. This is an issue between property tax paying citizens of Calgary and a private enterprise. If it's too much to ask for all, or some of the public funding back, then I think the Flames are out of touch.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Regarding the possibility of relocation, I know two of the owners personally, one in particular since I was a kid, with close family ties (and many posters are aware of the connection). They have deep historical roots in the community and as King said are extremely charitable and generous. You only need to look at the foundations and causes they have started and supported, all of which are local and benefit Calgarians greatly (I can provide links).

I know for a fact these owners would be devastated to see the Flames leave Calgary.

*insert sick Filipino lady story*

[Freeway]

FWIW, easily the most media I've seen at the 'Dome in seven years of training camps. Not even close.