Mark Meechan (aka "Count Dankula") found guilty of hate crime for joke Nazi video

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

said the mouse beside the restless elephant.

Yawn. 2 years and the dems ‘boring’ president will be in power and everyone realize they spent 4 years being upset for little to no reason.

Or less if the the pubs lose the house? Has that happened yet? Like I said I don’t follow American politics.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh if you've been following along closely to the United States political scene over the last year, it's kind of looking an awful lot like early days Nazism actually.

Wow, educate yourself on what actually happened in Europe back then, trying to compare that to the minor problems of today is ridiculous. What we see today is nothing like the rise of the nazis, America is still the most free country on the face of the Earth. Get a grip on yourself.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Wow, educate yourself on what actually happened in Europe back then, trying to compare that to the minor problems of today is ridiculous. What we see today is nothing like the rise of the nazis, America is still the most free country on the face of the Earth. Get a grip on yourself.

Is it though?

What exactly are you using as you measuring stick here?

[PsYcNeT]

Read (or re-read) Milton Meyer's They Thought They Were Free. The similarities from the view inside the machine grow more alike every month.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Is it though?

What exactly are you using as you measuring stick here?

Who's freer?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Matata

Who's freer?

Switzerland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Norway, Denmark, The United Kingdom, Sweden, and Canada, among others.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o...om-index-2.pdf

It ranks 17th. In that.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/econ...=map&year=2015

11th in that one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

21st here.

Other than Americans, who actually believes that America is the most free country?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Switzerland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Norway, Denmark, The United Kingdom, Sweden, and Canada, among others.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o...om-index-2.pdf

It ranks 17th. In that.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/econ...=map&year=2015

11th in that one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

21st here.

Other than Americans, who actually believes that America is the most free country?

People who like to own guns.

[Nyah]

So a guy may be going to prison for teaching his dog a Nazi salute as a joke to annoy his girlfriend?

Man, if me & my friends streamed a game of Cards Against Humanity in the UK, we'd all be in big trouble!

[Oling_Roachinen]

It's pretty much a running joke right now about the corruption in the Russian election, but is gerrymandering that certain States have got away with (and sometimes haven't) really that much less corrupt?

Essentially that "free" country has its political parties actively working towards discounting the votes of their citizens to win elections, and it happens frequently. But that guy with the tattoo of a bald eagle on his back and a wifebeater on is yelling that America is the most free country, so it must be true.

Oh, and judges being caught throwing in petty youth criminals to jail to meet quotas by the for-pay prison? Life imprisonment for small drug offences due to the third strike law...and now the president wants to establish the death penalty for drug dealers?

[Jason14h]

I laughed when the dog was watching Hitler on the screen. I guess I'm Hitler.... Err the Devil

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Seriously, when has Trump supported the nazis?

Politics has become so bloody ridiculous these days that people have lost track of the atrocities that have happened in the past. Nothing in your current North American life is in the same ballpark as the things that happened in 1900's Europe.

Not in the same ballpark, sure.

But most definitely the same sport.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh if you've been following along closely to the United States political scene over the last year, it's kind of looking an awful lot like early days Nazism actually.

Moves to consolidate power, and remove any checks on power.

Moves to uproot standing government institutions.

Narcissistic, self-indulgent parades or rallies.

Attack on intellectualism.

Very aggressive on free trade, anti-diplomatic stance towards deemed enemy states like North Korea.

Attack on free press, subtle moves towards propagandism (White House press corps allowed to ask tough questions?).

Seemingly empathetic towards racist and prejudiced viewpoints, including Nazis themselves (Charlottesville).

Open discussion about deporting immigrants or "others" (DACA).

I gotta say, comparison to Nazism isn't as crazy as it was 1 year ago, that's for sure. We're closer on the spectrum, which should rightfully so concern a lot of people.

Hell that's just off the top of my head...

Trump is actually one of the most isolationist US presidents in a long time. He's the first I can remember not to have the US get involved in any new military conflicts... Hitler was not so isolationist.

No one likes Trump, but comparing him to Hitler is offensive to the people who's family members suffered as a result of Hitler. Ironically this was the reason why the guy who made this video was convicted.

Edit: I don't think being offensive is a criminal matter, just to be clear.

[CliffFletcher]

What we're seeing in the U.S. today is a resurgence of populism. It happens periodically. Populism =/= fascism.

Anyone who thinks Trump is on the road to taking over all the arms of government, the media, the judiciary, and the schools has let reason become hostage to their fears. Get back to me when men with truncheons break into the taping of the John Oliver show and beat the host and audience senseless while the police stand by smiling and the courts turn a blind eye, and then we'll talk about American Nazis.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Switzerland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Norway, Denmark, The United Kingdom, Sweden, and Canada, among others.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o...om-index-2.pdf

It ranks 17th. In that.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/econ...=map&year=2015

11th in that one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

21st here.

Other than Americans, who actually believes that America is the most free country?

That report takes a very specific definition of freedom, one that is a very valid definition, but it does things like identify security as pro freedom concept, even though freedom and security as concepts are typically the antithesis of each other. I understand they included this in their definition of freedom because people feel more comfortable working under a blanket of security, but it's clear this is a specific definition of freedom.

America's style of freedom is more personal freedom orientated. Americans typically pay far less taxes than those countries listed and so far have not sent anyone to jail over nazi pugs. You can certainly argue that an excess of freedom results in a failure to protect citizens and a net loss of freedom, but I don't see any of those countries as being fundamentally more free than the US. It's also clear that the extreme highs and lows found in America is a testament to the huge amount of individual freedom there.

As flawed as it may be, the american model of freedom has also been superconductor for technological development, and technological development has been the biggest driver of freedom in the modern world. The success of America's mad experiment with freedom has also been a boon to global freedom, their model of freedom has been so successful that every successful nation has adopted it to some degree.

[Jacks]

Usually I try to avoid these conversations and should have yesterday. Unfortunately the several beers that I had last night got the better of me but I'll bow out now.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Matata

America's style of freedom is more personal freedom orientated. Americans typically pay far less taxes than those countries listed and so far have not sent anyone to jail over nazi pugs.

Lee Carroll Brooker got life without parole for growing some plants in his backyard. Plants that would be harvested and used for the sole purpose of helping him cope with pain due to being a disabled veteran. Not sure their personal freedom is a shining beacon in comparison to the UK.

Of course, I think it's ridiculous that Mr. Meechan was found guilty of this, as well.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If you were the one that went through something, then you can be the one to mock it or make fun of it. But the minute somebody else does, it's a completely different dynamic, isn't it? It's a completely different context, isn't it?

I don't see why.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It makes sense that society has gone a bit more sensitive about it, because nobody in younger generations knew what it was like- so who the hell are they to make fun of the criminals that commenced humanity's worst suffering episode in history?

Earlier generations thought the best way to confront #######s like the Nazis was to make fun of them. Expose them for the pitiful creeps they were. You don't react to a clown wearing jackboots and ranting about racial contamination by crossing yourself and clutching a crucifix like he's the devil. That only gives him power. No, you deflate his self-important pomp with ridicule. Expose him for the insecure loser that he is. Why should that tactic be any less legitimate today?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Matata

Who's freer?

In theory? No one - there are fewer legal or administrative restrictions on your ability to do things there than anywhere. Practically? Well, that's where all those rankings come in.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What we're seeing in the U.S. today is a resurgence of populism. It happens periodically. Populism =/= fascism.

Anyone who thinks Trump is on the road to taking over all the arms of government, the media, the judiciary, and the schools has let reason become hostage to their fears. Get back to me when men with truncheons break into the taping of the John Oliver show and beat the host and audience senseless while the police stand by smiling and the courts turn a blind eye, and then we'll talk about American Nazis.

This is a big problem for people who want to oppose Trump, too, because it seems to imply that unless Trump is as bad as Hitler, he's not worth opposing. If you try to compare the GOP to the Nazis, every time they make it clear that they're not the Nazis, which is every day, you lose the argument. There's plenty of bad between where the USA stood going into the 2016 election and Nazi Germany, and you simply cannot grade on that curve.

But this doesn't seem to be the game we play anymore in politics. Good example, someone posted a story in maybe the mass shootings thread about a Republican lawmaker who was pushing for a law to ban airlines from putting pets in overhead storage, because United killed a dog. People pointed out that when a dog dies, he's outraged and jumps into action, but when kits are killed in Florida, radio silence. Good point.

But then we get into the theatre - half the responses I read either have the hashtag "#NRAisaterroristorganization" or accuse him of hating children. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? Take those sorts of hyperbolic statements seriously, that they actually believe the NRA is analogous to Al Qaeda or that a representative secretly despises children and wants them to be shot? Okay, then the people making them are morons. Or am I instead expected to play this emperor's new clothes game where we pretend our ideological opponents are worse than they really are, that they're effectively Nazis, just to make it absolutely clear which side I'm on? Or do I again find myself cheering for the asteroid to come and cleanse us all from existence?

Seriously, it wasn't until this decade that I started thinking all those crazy movie supervillains might have been onto something.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Lee Carroll Brooker got life without parole for growing some plants in his backyard. Plants that would be harvested and used for the sole purpose of helping him cope with pain due to being a disabled veteran. Not sure their personal freedom is a shining beacon in comparison to the UK.

Of course, I think it's ridiculous that Mr. Meechan was found guilty of this, as well.

The drug wars and prison system are huge black marks on the american model.

I don't think anecdotes really work in the context of such a broad topic, since we could trade them back and forth all day, such as Elon Musk doing everything in his power to come to America as a teenager because he knew america was the only place he would have the opportunity to purse his dreams in earnest.

[CliffFletcher]

nvm