Hindsight: Would you rather: Dougie, Martin Jones, or Barzal - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GreenLantern2814 · 03-10-2018, 10:32 AM

Let's go back to the 2015 draft. Treliving is on the hunt to improve the back end and goaltending. He's in on Martin Jones and Dougie, and we know how that goes.

What we didn't know was that Matthew Barzal would be there at 15 - the pick we sent to the Bruins. Barzal is outscoring John Tavares this year and he plays center.

Now Dougie, I don't think it can be argued, is a home run. He's going to get his 4th consecutive 40 point season, including all three seasons in Calgary, with a 50 point season for good measure. Oh, and he's only been on the #1 powerplay for two months of that. Great work, Gulutzan. He also plays the toughest matchups with Gio, and it's clear the guy is a beast with lots of room still to grow.

Martin Jones has given the Sharks three straight years of .912+ goaltending and gone to a SCF.

So guess the question is this: with the 15th overall pick in 2015, do you take a #1C, a #1D, or a #1G? It's not every day you have that choice with a 15th pick.

Patek23 · 03-10-2018, 10:34 AM

Rather have Barzal at this point but Barzal could fall off a cliff and prove to be a one hit wonder. At the time it was the right deal for Tre to make though. Hindsight is always 20/20.

GranteedEV · 03-10-2018, 10:36 AM

None of the above. I would want Brock Boeser. A Tkachuk-Bennett-Boeser line would give opponents fits.

GreenLantern2814 · 03-10-2018, 10:41 AM

The career trajectory of Sam Bennett should also be factored in - he was coming off a playoff when he was one of our most effective forwards. He would've been expected to be the #2C in a few years, or at least a very good three.

I'd take Hamilton over Jones, and as much as Barzal would be awesome, I don't see this being one we as a fanbase lament a la Kidd over Brodeur.

GreenLantern2814 · 03-10-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

None of the above. I would want Brock Boeser. A Tkachuk-Bennett-Boeser line would give opponents fits.

I wouldn't want to hamstring Boeser and Tkachuk with Bennett as their centre, but Boeser is a good pick as well. There was LOT of talent outside the top 10 of that draft.

Classic_Sniper · 03-10-2018, 10:54 AM

Has anyone actually heard or seen who we would’ve picked at that spot? Oiler fans flip out over the Reinhart deal, but in the end I heard they would’ve picked Eriksson-Ek over Barzal anyway, so they never would’ve ended up with him regardless.

Insufficient Funds · 03-10-2018, 11:03 AM

I'm not sure why the OP isn't including the 2 second rounders we have up for Hamilton as well. I know it suits the narrative of the question better, but its not acurate. Hamiltons cost was a fair bit more than Jones at the end of the day.

As Classic points out, we don't know who the Flames would've taken at 15 OA. I remember a lot of people liking Zorbil (sp?) and more people wanting Kyle Connor.

But to play along, I'd stick with the top pairing D man. They still seem to be the most difficult asset to obtain currently.

CaptainCrunch · 03-10-2018, 11:06 AM

I will take the 24 year old 6 foot 6 skates like the wind, right hand shooting top pairing puck moving defensemen and not lose sleep over it at all thanks.

Those parts don't come along that often and when you have a chance to get it, that's a major building block.

We've seen what a defense void of top guys can achieve, and that's absolutely nothing.

Kovaz · 03-10-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Has anyone actually heard or seen who we would’ve picked at that spot? Oiler fans flip out over the Reinhart deal, but in the end I heard they would’ve picked Eriksson-Ek over Barzal anyway, so they never would’ve ended up with him regardless.

Wouldn't shock me if we did pick Barzal. I remember reading we didn't think Tkachuk would be available at 6, so there's at least a little precedent that we're willing to jump at the chance to draft someone we thought would go earlier. I also remember reading a lot about Chabot leading up to the draft, although I can't remember how much of that was insiders talking about the team vs. forum speculation. My money's on Chabot as our guy if we stay put though - especially since we were really in need of young D at that point.

Erick Estrada · 03-10-2018, 11:10 AM

Dougie Hamilton is worth more than any other player noted in this thread. He’s the player that GM’s covet off the Flames roster. The trade was one of the best trades made in the history of this organization. Not really much to discuss as Barzal would be at best half of a package required to obtain a defenseman of Hamilton’s caliber.

handgroen · 03-10-2018, 11:12 AM

With Hamilton we had a playoff year in there too, which even if we homerun that 15th pick with barzal or boesser the flames don't get the help they needed to get in that year. And that beating from the ducks is totally essential for a step forward

Cali Panthers Fan · 03-10-2018, 11:14 AM

It's close, but I take the #1 goalie all day any day, then the #1 D-man, then the center.

We have wasted a lot of assets chasing after other team's cast off goalies, and we finally found a solid one in Mike Smith, but he's 35 and probably only has a couple of years left in the tank. Jones would solve a major hole in our lineup that we still don't have a long term solution to. It's fair to say that this team probably has more success in both the regular season and playoffs with Martin Jones over guys like Ramo, Hiller, Ortio, Elliott, Johnson etc. Now that isn't ruling out the goalies we have in the system, but clearly Jones was ready for prime time before anyone else that we've drafted.

We have drafted and developed other defensemen fairly well. That would likely sort itself out, but probably not on the same level as Hamilton. So while Hamilton is better than anyone we've drafted, we have plenty of good to great defense prospects.

We've drafted Monahan, Bennett, Jankowski, and also had Backlund in the system. While Barzal is an upgrade on any of those not named Monahan (although not as good as Backlund is defensively) I still think we have had plenty of solid center prospects. It's a position that's a little easier to draft for as well since most forwards out of junior can usually make the transition to the NHL quickly, so there's less guess work.

Goaltending is always the most important position to address, so Jones for me I guess.

Gaskal · 03-10-2018, 11:15 AM

Dougie, because we f'ed Chiarelli over at the same time.

David Struch · 03-10-2018, 11:19 AM

Sebastian Aho wouldn't have made it to #35 (101 pts)

Cantrader · 03-10-2018, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Dougie, because we f'ed Chiarelli over at the same time.

I agree. I think Boston was concerned that Oilers were going to offer sheet him. Tre told fans during a flames session that he was stalking Sweeney/ the new GM at that time for a few weeks to get Dougie. He started bugging Sweeney at the airport.

kyuss275 · 03-10-2018, 11:22 AM

Could make a case on going with each of three choices. I'd be happy with any of the 3. Could have gone a lot worse than picking between those 3

bigrangy · 03-10-2018, 11:23 AM

The Dougie trade was a complete steal at the time that only looks bad in hindsight because Boston flubbed their picks. Barzal is probably the better asset now but I would also rather have Dougie than any other d-man younger than him (except maybe Werenski or Sergachev and ofc Dahlin)

If the Flames hadn't made the trade I think they would have picked Connor at 15.

dino7c · 03-10-2018, 11:55 AM

I will take the 24 year old leading goal scorer in the whole damn league dman. 9th in Norris voting last season? I think some of you over value flashy forwards.

YYC in LAX · 03-10-2018, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Now Dougie, I don't think it can be argued, is a home run. He's going to get his 4th consecutive 40 point season, including all three seasons in Calgary, with a 50 point season for good measure.

Also, Dude. Let's not forget. Let's NOT forget - Dougie has increased his career best season point total every year in the league.

Classic_Sniper · 03-10-2018, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

I will take the 24 year old leading goal scorer in the whole damn league dman. 9th in Norris voting last season? I think some of you over value flashy forwards.

I don’t think it’s that crazy. If the question becomes Barzal + 2 second round picks in one of the deepest drafts we’ve seen, then it’s a very good question.

Considering how deep we are on RHD anyway, it’s possible that having a ppg center would probably be more beneficial to us considering how tough it’s been for us to score goals this season. Dougie’s been very good, but we haven’t had an above ppg centermen since who, Nieuwendyk?

At the end of the day, when looking at our overall situation, I think having an additional dynamic scorer along with 2 second round picks would actually be better. But that’s assuming we would have picked Barzal which is not a guarantee.