2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Hamilton for Subban make sense to anyone?

Gio - brodie
Valimaki - Subban
Andersson - Stone

Pretty good vets for Valimaki and Andersson to learn from

And Hamonic just went for a long walk?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Correct! But not that this matters much: the Oilers have virtually nothing worth protecting beyond their top line, their goalie and a few defensemen.

He could waive though ala Fleury.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

He could waive though ala Fleury.

Sure, but I don't see how this would help the Oilers. A new expansion team is not picking Milan Lucic from their pile of crap.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Hamilton for Subban make sense to anyone?

Gio - brodie
Valimaki - Subban
Andersson - Stone

Pretty good vets for Valimaki and Andersson to learn from

Yuck.
Subban is maybe marginally better right now, but is 5 years older and making $3.5 million/year more

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

And Hamonic just went for a long walk?

Hahaha my bad forgot about that guy

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Sure, but I don't see how this would help the Oilers. A new expansion team is not picking Milan Lucic from their pile of crap.

I imagine something significant would be sent Seattle's way to take him on, otherwise I agree.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Hamilton for Subban make sense to anyone?

Gio - brodie
Valimaki - Subban
Andersson - Stone

Pretty good vets for Valimaki and Andersson to learn from

No.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Hamilton for Subban make sense to anyone?

Gio - brodie
Valimaki - Subban
Andersson - Stone

Pretty good vets for Valimaki and Andersson to learn from

Subban has lots of talent but he doesn't seem like the veteran leader type. He seems like a lone wolf on his teams. He's not unlikable - quite the opposite. But he doesn't seem to play within team systems, and he doesn't seem top be a guy the team looks to for a leadership role.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Hamilton for Subban make sense to anyone?

Gio - brodie
Valimaki - Subban
Andersson - Stone

Pretty good vets for Valimaki and Andersson to learn from

I just don't see how this helps the Flames. It's a lateral move at best, and does nothing to fix the lack of offensive depth in the middle-six up front. If a defenseman is traded—be it Brodie, Stone or even Hamilton—the impetus for a trade must be predicated on repairing the most glaring hole up front. Acquiring Subban does not do that.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I imagine something significant would be sent Seattle's way to take him on, otherwise I agree.

Yeah, McDavid.

[bigrangy]

Hamilton, among active defenseman by the end of their 24 year old season is tied for 3rd in career scoring behind only Karlsson and Phaneuf

He has elite defensive and offensive metrics

He turns 25 in 4 days

And people want to trade him for spare part wingers or good depth

Proven or emerging #1 C or he can stay a Flame in my book

Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Giordano are the franchise. No reasonable deal should see any of these players change address

[rhino]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Hamilton for Subban make sense to anyone?

Gio - brodie
Valimaki - Subban
Andersson - Stone

Pretty good vets for Valimaki and Andersson to learn from

No...... I don’t understand why people would trade Hamilton in at best a lateral move.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I just don't see how this helps the Flames.

Sells a lot of jerseys. Gives the team a big splashy personality that we haven't had since....Dion? Ok maybe not personality, but media target.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Sells a lot of jerseys. Gives the team a big splashy personality that we haven't had since....Dion? Ok maybe not personality, but media target.

I assume you mean on defence.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Sells a lot of jerseys. Gives the team a big splashy personality that we haven't had since....Dion? Ok maybe not personality, but media target.

So you make a trade that doesn’t add anything to your team other then term and dollars to sell some jerseys?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by rhino

So you make a trade that doesn’t add anything to your team other then term and dollars to sell some jerseys?

PS: I know, not a trade and he maybe added something or was supposed to. But jersey sales may have been his biggest contribution.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The cost for a top line player is simply too high, and would create another hole in the lineup. Moreover the acquisition of an established or emerging second-line scorer is not remotely comparable to D. Sutter’s collection of reclamation forwards.

Aren't you worried about repeating the Raymond and Brouwer mistakes? Guys who were supposedly consistent scorers. I believe it was Confucius who said "Only insane man repeats same actions expecting different results".

I suppose it depends on what you are calling second line scoring. Evander Kane, Phil Kessel, Gabriel Landeskog, Brendan Gallagher types? I am interpreting your comments to be more about depth vs. top end player whereas I would characterize those guys as top end talent.

There are very few players in this league who you can count for 20 goals without dependence on linemates, PP time etc.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Where they were drafted is immaterial. 24 year old Dougie has 400+ NHL games and 200+ points. He's light years better than 24 year old Gio. This is a player who gets better every year, and I don't see why he's going to be less effective at 28, 29, 30 than now.

Should you not want to use the Gio example, consider former 1st round pick Brent Burns. Dougie's numbers by age 24 obliterate Brent Burns'. And I don't expect we're going to see Dougie take a year to play forward. Why are we trading 24 year old nicer Brent Burns?

He doesn't kill penalties. Anyone can kill penalties. Your job is to get in the way and ice the puck. You're basically a meat shield. They have Stone, Hamonic, Gio and Brodie who aren't needed for the 1st power play, so Dougie doesn't need to kill penalties. I guarantee before his career is done, Hamilton will be a fixture on the PK.

You trade Brodie and all you need to do is find another guy who can play in the top 4. Sign Thomas Hickey and I don't think we lose THAT much, all things considered. Trade Hamilton and you're immediately trying to find another Hamilton.

You know who else was light years ahead of Gio at 24? Dion Phaneuf, Jay Bouwmeester so while you can show players getting better with age I can show how players peak before they are 25 and fizzle out (not saying that will happen with Hamilton)

Was Sougie any better in 18 as he was in 17? He scored more goals and scored less points. I would say he had back to back great years but don’t tell me he took a step from year 2 to year 3 in Calgary.

What does Brodie get us though? That has been my point all along. Where I disagree with most people that I am debating with is the hole moving Hamilton creates. Certainly it creates a hole but not a massive one that we cannot bounce back from.

Does Boston really miss Dougie with McAvoy and Carlo (not to mention still having Krug and Chara). I am hoping that the Flames will feel similar with 2 or more of Andersson, Kylington, Valimaki, Fox being able to fill those holes (while the Flames still have Gio, Brodie, Hamonic).

In my opinion the Flames have 4 top 6 forwards and 1 of those players is better suited to the third line (Backlund). Who on the team or in the system has top 6 potential? Maybe Jankowski and maybe Bennett and that is about it. We need another top 3/4 forward to add to Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and the only trade chip we have that will get us that player is Hamilton.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Aren't you worried about repeating the Raymond and Brouwer mistakes?

No.

I believe it was Confucius who said "Only insane man repeats same actions expecting different results".

Ooooooooh. You did that just to make my head explode.

I suppose it depends on what you are calling second line scoring. Evander Kane, Phil Kessel, Gabriel Landeskog, Brendan Gallagher types? I am interpreting your comments to be more about depth vs. top end player whereas I would characterize those guys as top end talent.

There are very few players in this league who you can count for 20 goals without dependence on linemates, PP time etc.

Sure. As we have in the past and continue to re-hash in subsequent posts, we clearly disagree about the quality of players already on the roster and in the system. I happen to think that the team is not nearly as bad as a number of others suggest. I guess we will see what happens, but I feel confident that a collection of new voices behind the bench will make a big difference.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No.


Ooooooooh. You did that just to make my head explode.


Sure. As we have in the past and continue to re-hash in subsequent posts, we clearly disagree about the quality of players already on the roster and in the system. I happen to think that the team is not nearly as bad as a number of others suggest. I guess we will see what happens, but I feel confident that a collection of new voices behind the bench will make a big difference.

^^Agree that this is the more prudent approach. Lots of examples of teams doing better with different voices/coaches who deploy different, systems and methods..; Didn't Hamilton and Ward work together in Boston? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Ward's hire was "enhanced" by player feedback at the end of the year discussions with BT. Certainly he would want to know from the players (Hamilton) what ingredients were missing. Hamilton and other player likely felt they could/should have contributed more but were not given enough opportunity. We also know that Ward was also a previous coaching consideration for BT, so it is plausible!? Lots of solid intangibles. This is one of the reasons I don't believe Hamilton gets traded unless it is something the Flames simply can't refuse.

The same about Ryan Huska; not only were the Flames concerned about losing him to another NHL team, some of the players that were brought up had made some favorable comments throughout the year. Players sent down responded favorably when brought back up. This could have solidly impacted BT's decision; Because when you look at Bennett's struggles, some of the other players called up seemed to transition onto the roster with a little more ease. Bennett's struggles are an important part of the process, there is no way BT would overlook this. Huska is good with transitioning the young guys and Ward (who has experience) is a players coach, and a taskmaster who is good at getting more out of skilled players.

IMO,"the shoe fits", so I doubt Hamilton gets traded.