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Old 07-21-2019, 03:20 PM   #1
TheSquatch
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Default Flames draft hits/misses vs other clubs

I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:25 PM   #2
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I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
Why not do the research yourself?
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:35 PM   #3
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Why not do the research yourself?

Haha, start a new thread and ask people to do the research for him.
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:38 PM   #4
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Johnny was an ok hit
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
Calgary has been at the lower end of that until more recently. Getting useful guys later on in the drafts has started to change since 2008 and we're probably on the top half now since then.
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:50 PM   #6
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Wow, the OP simply asks if anyone has done the research (presumably to save duplicating effort) and gets a smack down.

I was thinking the same thing Squatch. We’ve obviously had lots of misses over the years with 1st round picks such as Chris Chuko, Morgan Klimchuk and others not working out. I’d even say Bennett was a bust as our highest ever draft pick and looking like a 3rd line guy (middle 6 at best).

I’d balance that out with hits such as a Johnny and Moneyhands, Andersson, Valimaki.

My gut tells me the last 6 years has been good, but the 10 years before that, not so much. Someone (who may have already done the research) will probably price be wrong.
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:58 PM   #7
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Things more or less started to change with the Backlund pick, but didn't really pick up until Tree.

In 2008, got Bouma in the 3rd, Brodie in the 4th
10, got Ferland in the 5th
11, Grandlund in the 2nd, Gaudreau in the 4th
15, Andersson, Kylington, and Eat Bread
16, Dube, Fox, Phillips and Parsons
18, Koumontzis, Pettersen and Zavgorovdniy
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:21 PM   #8
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It’s been pretty decent the last few years.

It is fair to say the Flames stink at drafting goalies though.
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:25 PM   #9
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Why not do the research myself....

2 reasons - First, I suspect someone has it all packed up and ready to go. Second, I don't really know how to efficiently access whatever data bases people use for this kind of thing. It's not important enough to me to spend 10 hours on, frankly.

If someone knows the answer, great, if not, great.

If asking a question elicits such a sour faced response, I'll be sure and do it again.
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
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It’s been pretty decent the last few years.

It is fair to say the Flames stink at drafting goalies though.
Or stink at developing them, not sure which. Maybe both.
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:33 PM   #11
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Why not do the research myself....

2 reasons - First, I suspect someone has it all packed up and ready to go. Second, I don't really know how to efficiently access whatever data bases people use for this kind of thing. It's not important enough to me to spend 10 hours on, frankly.

If someone knows the answer, great, if not, great.

If asking a question elicits such a sour faced response, I'll be sure and do it again.

An unbiased (at least towards the Flames) hockey fan has done something that you might be interested in over at HF. Should answer some of your questions fairly thoroughly, actually. Just go look in their prospects section under "Best Drafting Teams in the NHL". If anyone can find some better and more thorough work out there somewhere, I would be interested in knowing about it myself, but this is the best work I have seen on this subject thus far.



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Old 07-21-2019, 04:52 PM   #12
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Ever since Treliving took over, the Flames have been one of the top drafting teams in the NHL, if not the very best.

Someone actually did research on the value each team has gotten from their draft picks based on draft position and everything over the last 5, 10 and 15 years I believe and the Flames under Treliving were #1 I believe
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:24 PM   #13
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The lasting legacy of Feaster and Weisbrod's time here was making clear criterion for what the Flames valued, what it looked like, and how that structured their draft lists.
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:36 PM   #14
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Interesting, yes, they rank better than I expected by those metrics.
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:42 PM   #15
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Came to mention the great work that Hf poster did. One of the few good posts on that terrible echo box.
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
Recently saw a study that had the Flames in top spot in the last five years, and something like 7th overall in the last ten for mining talent.

I'll look for it.

Hard not to like the recent success though, especially with the lack of 1st and 2nds.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:18 PM   #17
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According to the analysis on Hfboards, Calgary has been the best drafting team in the past four years. From 2012-2015 however, Calgary ranked 21st.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...e-nhl.2665533/
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:23 PM   #18
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I am amazed with all the scouting and tools in teams hands what a complete crapshoot the draft still is. I have always felt anything 4th round or later is nothing more than luck. Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are not. I am too lazy but I wonder if you could fire your whole scouting department and just draft solely on the scouting bureaus number. I bet over 20 years you wouldn’t look out of place.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:46 PM   #19
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Most of the current team drafted by Flames. Can't be that bad lately?

Wish we'd keep more picks TBH
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:47 PM   #20
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Squatch you are a relatively new member to the boards (welcome to CP! btw) and have begun a thread with negative implications. Well maybe not, but there was a time where Calgary was terrible at drafting the the memory remains sour. That might have got a couple members feeling defensive. Sorry if I/we misjudged you.

Glad to say, as others have, that good drafting is now a Flames strength.
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