Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I see absolutely no connection between the current situation and a suspension or injury. Those things are part of hockey, they're completely individualized circumstances, and they have no bearing on the season playing out to its full expected duration.

This is an injury to all of the players. There is no way to demonstrate that they are fit to play hockey.

Unless they put Force Majure clauses in the trade conditions then that’s the risk of injury or suspension or Coronavirus cancelation is born by the flames.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Not getting a 3rd is not the end of the world. Neal had to go and I would've done that trade with just the salary retention honestly. I don't particularly like Lucic but neal is an embarrassment. The fact that they think they won the trade is just icing on the cake. Nobody won that, it was dirty business that needed done mostly on Calgary's side. Lucic is just one of many plugs on Edmonton, how did that move the needle for them? Neal was the worst player I've seen in Calgary since Chris Stewart or Freddy Modin and he was signed for 4x 5.75. Had to go. Worst UFA signing in franchise history.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[TheScorpion]

To think that none of this would have happened if Treliving never signed Brouwer... and then didn't double down on that mistake by buying him out to free up space to sign another aging UFA.

Now they're paying Brouwer AND Lucic. Not ideal.

[dino7c]

Its not just the Flames deal. There are a bunch of trades, bonuses, ect. they will have to rule on and all will need to use the same guidelines for all of them. Even the draft, they aren't just gonna take the standings as they are IMO.

Third round pick or not isn't the end of the world its just interesting to see how they rule on all this. Can't pro-rate elsewhere and not here.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

To think that none of this would have happened if Treliving never signed Brouwer... and then didn't double down on that mistake by buying him out to free up space to sign another aging UFA.

Now they're paying Brouwer AND Lucic. Not ideal.

I'm going to go further back and blame Feaster leaving the organisation void of right handed shots forcing Treliving to gamble on a series of overpriced signings to fill the right wing holes. Surely he could have acquired at least one through the draft or his series of team dismantling trades. He could have had Tom Wilson if he didn't mangle the 2012 draft.

[SeanCharles]

It will be hilarious when both these guys are bought out..

Fingers crossed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GGG

If Neal got suspended for 20 games would we get the pick? Nope. If he got injured would we get the pick? Nope

This is somewhere between a Suspension and an Injury. I think you read the conditions in the pick as written.

Both of those things a re a function of the player. Completely different than having an incomplete season.

There are too many performance bonuses, and other season-related contract items to simply ignore. They are going to have to do something.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Both of those things a re a function of the player. Completely different than having an incomplete season.

There are too many performance bonuses, and other season-related contract items to simply ignore. They are going to have to do something.

Agreed, but whatever the League decides to do is going to have such far-reaching consequences that the response to different but similar issues is likely to be different. In other words, while they may decide to pay out bonuses on the basis of pro-rated season totals, it may be simply too difficult to pro-rate season figures for trade conditions. While the League may opt to honour some conditions on the basis of pro-rated totals, others are likely to be ignored. (I think the Neal/Lucic condition will not be satisfied.) I suspect that all trade conditions on the basis of playoff performances will be nullified; but by the same token, I also imagine that all deadline trades which featured draft picks will be upheld. I could imagine bonuses paid out on a pro-rated basis, but then again, how does the revenue shortfall affect revenue sharing between the League and the players?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

The league could give us a 3rd at the end of the round, I could see that. Same with other conditional picks dealt in other trades. Edmonton will keep their 3rd though. There is a way to keep everyone happy.

[Flash Walken]

I feel like the flames would be better off if the league didn't interfere with conditional picks, wouldn't they?

Flames would lose out on the conditions of the oilers 3rd but would avoid giving up a more valuable pick for the conditions they had with LA and Chicago.

Right?

[powderjunkie]

There was always wording available that could have anticipated reduced games played for Neal (for any reason):

"Neal scores 21 goals OR scores at a 0.30 g/gp pace while playing at least __ games."

It's hard to imagine the Oilers agree to set the __ at anything less than 60 games, so those conditions would still not have been met. (and presumably they would have added a similar 'OR' condition to Lucic, complicating matters further)


Was this the first deal that had conditions relating to two separate players? It seems it was already one of the more complicated conditions ever written.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I feel like the flames would be better off if the league didn't interfere with conditional picks, wouldn't they?

Flames would lose out on the conditions of the oilers 3rd but would avoid giving up a more valuable pick for the conditions they had with LA and Chicago.

Right?

Not really.

Either way, the Flames are giving up a third rounder to Chicago for Gustafsson. If they get the Oilers pick, they'll have a third round pick. If they don't, they won't.

For the Forbort trade, the pick upgrades based on playoff performance or Forbort re-signing with the Flames. If he re-signs, they give up the higher pick regardless of what happens in the playoffs -- if there are playoffs. If there are no playoffs, or they don't go to the Conference Finals in the playoffs, they give up the lower pick.


The only way it would be beneficial would be if they completely wiped out all deadline trades and let every team keep any draft picks that were traded away. I can't see that happening though.

[sureLoss]

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
Treliving says if the NHL Draft were to be held in June, things like how a draft order would come together are still unknown.

Says he’s also not sure what the status is on conditional picks, including the pick from last summer’s Lucic-Neal trade with Edmonton. #Flames

[Iggy Snipe]

Lucic has more heart than Neal any day of the week. Neal is a player who only is happy if he can tap pucks in the net. He has zero upside without ELITE talent playing with him. Lucic is happy to be a part or a piece of a winning formula, which I think he does fit well with Calgary. Remember, we didn’t trade for him to score goals. We signed James Neal to score goals.

Lucic can be effective on the forecheck, and definitely is a leader. When he is on the ice, there is a calming effect with the younger players playing with him.

When James Neal is on the ice, the puck is in his own net more times than not, and not a single player looks up to James Neal.

Lucic > Neal.

[TheScorpion]

Well why have one when you can have both?

Spoiler!

[img]

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Iggy Snipe

Remember, we didn’t trade for [Lucic] to score goals. We signed James Neal to score goals.

And yet, Lucic scored more anyway.

[Rando]

Well.. This is interesting

https://streamable.com/0ybzwx

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Rando

Well.. This is interesting

https://streamable.com/0ybzwx

Interesting... There’s more to it than we know.

[cannon7]

Anyone have a link that isn't streamable.com? (which has never worked for me)

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Interesting... There’s more to it than we know.

I am not surprised at all.

Neal seemed like a ###### and complainer. We also all know he has a big ego.

I think Commodore also said on the radio that he blamed who he played with for his lack of production instead of showing up and not floating.

Happy he is gone to be honest, go and stink up the Oil. We don't have room for players who can't backcheck and who don't care.