2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[browntrout]

Part of the problem with this team is pace, and players that can attack with speed and the ability to score. A few years ago this team had more of that make up, Hamilton, a younger Gio, Ferland, a younger Gaudreau, a healthy Monahan, brodie. The last few years, the ability for the team to attack, push the pace, and drive to the net has really eroded. The style that Sutter has said that is needed (more pace, forechecking) is going to be impossible to build here, we just don't have the ponies. As much as some posters rave about Backlund and Monahans value, not sure other GMs see it that way, fairly certain after last year's playoff exit that treliving tried to improve the team, but just was not possible.

This team is looking at some dark years ahead, probably a good thing, let's get a proper rebuild through the draft this time!

[ForeverFlameFan]

Of course Reinhart worked has better numbers than Mangiapane. One was 2nd OA in his draft year, the other was a freaking 6th round pick. The late picks ALWAYS have to work harder to prove themselves.

I am a fan of the thought of Reinhart on this team, but not at the expense of our winger who has great 5v5 numbers and is severely underpaid. Mangiapane on this team helps our chances of winning when he’s on the ice. Not saying Reinhart won’t, but Mangiapane makes an impact. And now all of the NHL knows Mangiapane a bit better after his performance on a big stage (that was a big stage for him).

Reinhart also isn’t the best skater, so if you can move Monahan in a separate deal then it would be a solid grab.

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Yes, and Sam Reinhart has played top line minutes alongside an elite center since stepping on an NHL ice surface. Comparing their career totals is disingenuous and does not paint an accurate picture as to where they are respectively today. Mangiapane has had to scrape and claw his way up the ranks since Junior.. He has been given no free passes, and it shows in his play on the ice.

And this season he was the top line center playing alongside guys like Anders Bjork and tied his career high for goals, in a shortened season

[shutout]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

A gun.

Buffalo is not trading the first pick in the draft in a deal where the premium part is two years from UFA.

The optics would just be terrible.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What about if moved down a round.

What would be needed to bridge the difference in a deal that saw:

Tkachuk and #44 2021
in exchange for
Reinhart and #32 2021

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Unfortunately, it is not even in the slightest wrong.

No matter how incredibly well Mangiapane plays (Flames' best forward 5v5 this past season), there's always a good portion of Flames fans that don't think of him as anything more than a 3rd line forward and happily use him as a throw-in in trade proposals.

Mangiapane dominates both offensively AND defensively.

Doesn't get anywhere close to the amount of recognition and respect that he deserves from this fanbase.

Man I hope one day Mangiapane can.live up to your incredible expectations.

Maybe he is being a little undervalued But your severe over evaluation is worse.

Point is, despite Mangiapanes super amazing 5v5 stats, the team still sucks on the whole. So no one is untouchable.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Reinhart CRUSHED his previous career rates in PP scoring.

1) Very unlikely he repeats
2) He'd very likely be on PP2 in Calgary where his number would fall off a cliff

Andrew Mangiapane was better by a decent margin 5v5 than Reinhart last season and will be MUCH cheaper.

I would love to have Reinhart and would be happy to trade for him, but yet again Mangiapane continues to be severely underrated

The fact that he's even being talked about 1 for 1 for Reinhart would suggest otherwise.

[Demetric]

IF

Eichel (C) > Tkachuk (W) > Monahan (C) > Reinhart (W)

2 for 2 or is the gap between Eichel and Tkachuk bigger than the value gap between Monahan and Reinhart?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Demetric

IF

Eichel (C) > Tkachuk (W) > Monahan (C) > Reinhart (W)

2 for 2 or is the gap between Eichel and Tkachuk bigger than the value gap between Monahan and Reinhart?

Eichel > Tkachuk >> Reinhart >= Monahan

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by shutout

What about if moved down a round.

What would be needed to bridge the difference in a deal that saw:

Tkachuk and #44 2021
in exchange for
Reinhart and #32 2021

How does this help us?

This obsession with trading Tkachuk because he is an “expiring asset” as a pending RFA but we want to move him for a lesser player who is also a pending RFA?

If this team wants to get better shouldn’t we be trying to keep players like Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Lindholm around unless it’s for a clear upgrade (assuming we can sign JG & MT to good contracts)?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

How does this help us?

This obsession with trading Tkachuk because he is an “expiring asset” as a pending RFA but we want to move him for a lesser player who is also a pending RFA?

If this team wants to get better shouldn’t we be trying to keep players like Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Lindholm around unless it’s for a clear upgrade (assuming we can sign JG & MT to good contracts)?

You exaggerate as always! The obsession isn't about trading Tkachuk by any means. The obsession is about changing the core of this team. This team is not going anywhere with Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Lindholm. Keeping the same players and paying them more just to keep being a bubble team is not something that gets fans excited.

Fans want change. Now I'm not sure that getting Reinhart for Tkachuk is a good deal for the Flames. Reinhart can just as easily sign for one year with the Flames and test the market. Personally if I'm trading Tkachuk I'm looking for either a clear upgrade, or younger players with a lot of potential, and team control for at least 4 seasons.

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Eichel > Tkachuk >> Reinhart >= Monahan

how is Reinhart >= Monahan?

Reinhart is a winger, career FO% of 39% and has a PPG .65 (454 games played)

Monahan is a center, career FO% of 50.2 and has a PPG .74 (591 games played)

This year even with Eichel out for half the season, Sam was 6th on the team on number of faceoffs taken.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Demetric

how is Reinhart >= Monahan?

Reinhart is a winger, career FO% of 39% and has a PPG .65 (454 games played)

Monahan is a center, career FO% of 50.2 and has a PPG .74 (591 games played)

This year even with Eichel out for half the season, Sam was 6th on the team on number of faceoffs taken.

It is a matter of opinion, but you can't just take career numbers. You also have to look at the player over the last season, the last 2 seasons, and see where the player is trending.



I'm sure Jagar has better career numbers than both those players, but he's not an NHLer anymore. I'm pretty sure if you take Spezza he would have better numbers over his career, and maybe even better numbers than Monahan last season. Yet he is a 3rd line center making $750k(yes he took a discount) at this point in his career.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Eichel > Tkachuk >> Reinhart >= Monahan

lol

What has Reinhart ever done to warrant this opinion?

To those arguing that Reinhart has put up far more points than Mangiapane, yes, but context matters - Reinhart has had MUCH better line-mates and opportunities. Just look at this last season straight-up, Mangiapane was the better player.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

He's a very good player but I feel like superstar means he does stuff that makes your jaw drop plus he commands attention.

Two-way players aren't superstars. Offense is what draws the eyeballs.

What a Leafy take. What are you offensive superstars up to right now?

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Isn't Stone the best RW in the world? If so, how is he not a superstar? Or do Pastrnak and Kucherov count as RW?

It's an interesting question who you'd take in a schoolyard pick'em - unless I already had some Selke calibre players, I'd take Stone before the other two.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just because his QO is 9, does not mean that will be his cap hit on a long term deal.

No one is giving him 9M on term...so if he is offered 8 or so on a 7 year deal, i believe he would sign it in a heartbeat unless he is only interested in testing UFA.

Unless the Flames turn things around big time next season, I don't see why he'd commit long-term. Especially with escrow considerations. I may find a way to post it later, but if he takes the 1x9 and then a 7x8 (65M total) he could come out well ahead of going straight to an 8x8 ($64M total). More money in his pocket sooner and more control of where he goes

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Unless the Flames turn things around big time next season, I don't see why he'd commit long-term. Especially with escrow considerations. I may find a way to post it later, but if he takes the 1x9 and then a 7x8 (65M total) he could come out well ahead of going straight to an 8x8 ($64M total). More money in his pocket sooner and more control of where he goes

As one poster corrected me, he is not guaranteed $9M for the one year. The Flames can choose a team elected salary arbitration instead of extending the $9M qualifying offer. In that case the arbitrator would reward at least 85% of Tkachuk's last year's salary+bonuses. This amounts to a minimum salary/cap of $7.65M for one year.

• Club Elected Salary Arbitration eligibility (first window):
  • Club electing for Arbitration in the first window must do so in writing by the later of June 15th OR 48hrs after the Stanley Cup final by 5:00pm EST [CBA Section 12.4(a)]
    • For the 2019-20 off-season, due to the postponed playoffs caused by COVID, the first window is the later of October 4th or 48hrs after the last playoff game played by the respective club
  • Player had a base salary greater than $2,198,916 in 2019 [CBA Section 12.3(a)]
  • Player had a base salary greater than $2,269,479 in 2020 [CBA Section 12.3(a)]
  • Club electing for Arbitration in the first window can be made in lieu of a Qualifying Offer [CBA 12.3(a)(ii)]
  • Player cannot be awarded less than 85% of his previous years combined base salary, signing bonuses and performance bonuses [CBA 12.3(a)(iii)]

capfrindly arbitration filings

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

It is a matter of opinion, but you can't just take career numbers. You also have to look at the player over the last season, the last 2 seasons, and see where the player is trending.



I'm sure Jagar has better career numbers than both those players, but he's not an NHLer anymore. I'm pretty sure if you take Spezza he would have better numbers over his career, and maybe even better numbers than Monahan last season. Yet he is a 3rd line center making $750k(yes he took a discount) at this point in his career.

They are 1 year age difference not 5 or 6, using Jagr as a comparison tool makes zero sense.

Last season they basically had same stats, slightly in favor of Reinhart with him having a .72 ppg while Monahan had a .69 ppg and I would say using this years is unfair as Monahan was dealing with injury again, and the entire team underperformed.

I just don't see how Reinhart has more value than Monahan when Monahan plays the more important position and better track record and they are only 1 year apart in age. I guess maybe using recency bias.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

You exaggerate as always! The obsession isn't about trading Tkachuk by any means. The obsession is about changing the core of this team. This team is not going anywhere with Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Lindholm. Keeping the same players and paying them more just to keep being a bubble team is not something that gets fans excited.

Fans want change. Now I'm not sure that getting Reinhart for Tkachuk is a good deal for the Flames. Reinhart can just as easily sign for one year with the Flames and test the market. Personally if I'm trading Tkachuk I'm looking for either a clear upgrade, or younger players with a lot of potential, and team control for at least 4 seasons.

As always? Lol now I’m wondering if you are exaggerating how much I exaggerate?

And in my defence, when almost every post I see is us trading Tkachuk I don’t really think I am far off in my assessment.

Anyways, I digress, back to the topic at hand..

Changing the core is not something I disagree with but it should be guys like Gio, Backlund and Monahan at the top of the list. The leaders and longest tenured members of the team.

Trading the few productive players we have is not a smart approach. Especially when they are still in a good age group and haven’t dealt with many injuries.

I just don’t think people are stopping and putting things into perspective.

If this team isn’t going anywhere with those 3 guys you mentioned then we probably need to commit to a full rebuild because those are our best forwards on the team and when they were put together as a line they looked like a legitimate offensive threat every time they were on the ice.

That is not something we can say about a lot of the line combinations we have seen in recent memory.

Retooling with lesser players is not the answer.

Even if change is necessary, you need to be smart about it.

[atb]

Friemdan was on Buffalo radio today talking about Eichel, sounds like the Ducks are in pretty serious talks for Eichel.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1405546141144563716

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Demetric

how is Reinhart >= Monahan?

Reinhart is a winger, career FO% of 39% and has a PPG .65 (454 games played)

Monahan is a center, career FO% of 50.2 and has a PPG .74 (591 games played)

This year even with Eichel out for half the season, Sam was 6th on the team on number of faceoffs taken.

It is based on Monny's more recent production and injury history.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by atb

Friemdan was on Buffalo radio today talking about Eichel, sounds like the Ducks are in pretty serious talks for Eichel.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1405546141144563716

Makes a lot of sense from both sides.

I’d be super bummed to see Eichel land in the Pacific Division and not on the Flames.

Vegas, Edmonton, Anaheim, and LA would be all be set-up pretty nicely to battle for the top-4 spots…and who knows what Seattle ends up being.

I hear a lot of pundits slamming the outlook of the Pacific division, but I don’t quite understand that.