06-17-2021, 03:26 PM
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#13741
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetric
They are 1 year age difference not 5 or 6, using Jagr as a comparison tool makes zero sense.
Last season they basically had same stats, slightly in favor of Reinhart with him having a .72 ppg while Monahan had a .69 ppg and I would say using this years is unfair as Monahan was dealing with injury again, and the entire team underperformed.
I just don't see how Reinhart has more value than Monahan when Monahan plays the more important position and better track record and they are only 1 year apart in age. I guess maybe using recency bias.
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yes, I made that comparison to convey a point. I don’t know which player is better. That’s why I said it was a matter of opinion.
What I observed in Monahan’s game 5 on 5 is concerning to say the least. Over the last two and a half seasons Monahan seems more like a PP specialist, and a 4th liner 5 on 5. I really hope that all his struggles are simply because of injuries. However even if they are all injury related we don’t know the degree to which they’ll heal. I found that once the Flames stopped scoring off the rush Monahan’s line didn’t have a consistent way of generating offence 5 on 5.
Honestly, I hope Monahan can recover, find his offence, and continue improving his defence. I know he is definitely trying out there! I have nothing bad to say about his effort, and i am routing for him. That said, I have a hard time believing in a miraculous recovery at the moment.
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06-17-2021, 03:29 PM
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#13742
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
Man I hope one day Mangiapane can.live up to your incredible expectations.
Maybe he is being a little undervalued But your severe over evaluation is worse.
Point is, despite Mangiapanes super amazing 5v5 stats, the team still sucks on the whole. So no one is untouchable.
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I mean... none of what I have said has been anything about my expectations for him moving forward.
Everything I've said has been based on what he's done, which I have validated through both statistics and analytics.
So... thanks for coming out?
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06-17-2021, 03:38 PM
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#13743
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First Line Centre
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06-17-2021, 03:40 PM
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#13744
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL
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What?!! How many darn coaches do we need? lol
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06-17-2021, 03:40 PM
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#13745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL
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That would be good. He is a good players guy that people look up to.
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06-17-2021, 03:41 PM
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#13746
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley
What?!! How many darn coaches do we need? lol
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20, one for each player in a game.
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06-17-2021, 03:45 PM
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#13747
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: victoria
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And they say Calgary has a hard time paying coaches
Lol
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06-17-2021, 03:46 PM
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#13748
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCharles
As always? Lol now I’m wondering if you are exaggerating how much I exaggerate?
And in my defence, when almost every post I see is us trading Tkachuk I don’t really think I am far off in my assessment.
Anyways, I digress, back to the topic at hand..
Changing the core is not something I disagree with but it should be guys like Gio, Backlund and Monahan at the top of the list. The leaders and longest tenured members of the team.
Trading the few productive players we have is not a smart approach. Especially when they are still in a good age group and haven’t dealt with many injuries.
I just don’t think people are stopping and putting things into perspective.
If this team isn’t going anywhere with those 3 guys you mentioned then we probably need to commit to a full rebuild because those are our best forwards on the team and when they were put together as a line they looked like a legitimate offensive threat every time they were on the ice.
That is not something we can say about a lot of the line combinations we have seen in recent memory.
Retooling with lesser players is not the answer.
Even if change is necessary, you need to be smart about it.
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Yeah definitely exaggerated your exaggeration
I am in the full rebuild camp, but I don't see the ownership/management committing to one any time soon. I thought that the roster was structured to give this core a window until the end of 21/22 season. Then either make whole sale changes or rebuild. It seems like the direction has changed because the window seems to have shut a couple of years early.
A lot of players took a step back from the 2018/19 season and followed it up with another step back. Monahan went from a 1b center to a 2/3 center. Giordano from a Norris defenceman to a #3D. Gaudreau went from a superstar to a first line winger that needs some help 5 on 5. Tkachuk went from the future captain of this team and a superstar in the making to someone that looked disinterested and that I wasn't expecting to take over a game.
Again, I think they should rebuild. Trade everything and everyone for futures, including Lindholm. That's because I don't see the team's window of contention opening in the next 3 years. The only way it will happen is if the Flames get very lucky on trades, finding several players that would be a perfect fit in here.
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06-17-2021, 03:46 PM
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#13749
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First Line Centre
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Screw getting Eichel, we're getting a coach for every line instead!
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06-17-2021, 03:47 PM
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#13750
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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I think the intent is to have Cail watching as the eye in the sky — having Muller, Tocchet, and Huska on the bench shouldn't be a problem, I wouldn't think.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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06-17-2021, 03:48 PM
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#13751
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvitaly
yes, I made that comparison to convey a point. I don’t know which player is better. That’s why I said it was a matter of opinion.
What I observed in Monahan’s game 5 on 5 is concerning to say the least. Over the last two and a half seasons Monahan seems more like a PP specialist, and a 4th liner 5 on 5. .
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4th liner 5 on 5?
Among C's in the last 2 1/2 years (Since 1/1/19), he is 40th in the NHL at ES. (5 fewer pts than Eichel although in more games) Far more points at ES than on the PP.
Not where you want him to be for sure, but far from the hyperbole of being a 4th liner. He has struggled ALONG with JG without question.
I get that people are disappointed in Monahan, but the over the top degradation of what he is on this board is preposterous, and getting worse by the day.
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06-17-2021, 03:52 PM
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#13752
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvitaly
As one poster corrected me, he is not guaranteed $9M for the one year. The Flames can choose a team elected salary arbitration instead of extending the $9M qualifying offer. In that case the arbitrator would reward at least 85% of Tkachuk's last year's salary+bonuses. This amounts to a minimum salary/cap of $7.65M for one year.
capfrindly arbitration filings
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It would all boil down to his performance this season. If he's similar to this year or worse, he probably gets that min.
If he's closer to 2020 pace, he'd probably get 8ish in arb.
2019 pace = probably 9ish in arb.
Even in the worst case scenario, he gets that 7.65M up front and can structure his subsequent deal accordingly.
If he's signing an 8x8, he'd probably want to go lower in the first year under 10% escrow than the following three years at 6%. Then lower for two years lockout protection and higher at the end. e.g. 6 9 9 9 6 7 9 9
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06-17-2021, 03:56 PM
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#13753
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
4th liner 5 on 5?
Among C's in the last 2 1/2 years (Since 1/1/19), he is 40th in the NHL at ES. (5 fewer pts than Eichel although in more games) Far more points at ES than on the PP.
Not where you want him to be for sure, but far from the hyperbole of being a 4th liner. He has struggled ALONG with JG without question.
I get that people are disappointed in Monahan, but the over the top degradation of what he is on this board is preposterous, and getting worse by the day.
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The 4th liner was mostly based on this season. Not on the whole 2.5 years. I was thinking more in terms of advanced stats, like GAR.
I'm glad that you agree with everything else I said though, because you didn't bother replying to any of it. That said, love the outrage!
EDIT: I agree that my initial post wasn't too clear. The 2.5 years were more to emphasize that his decline is not something that just happened this season. Also, when you look at stats like G/60 and P/60 5 on 5 Monahan was not doing great. I don't remember the exact numbers off the top off my head though.
EDIT 2: Found some stats I was looking for - On ice goals for/60 even strength this season is the same for Monahan and Nordstrom at 2.1. Monahan is 21st on the team in that stat. Monahan was also 22nd in CF% rel, FF%. 25th in CF% and so on.
Have a look here if you'd like https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CGY/index.html
Last edited by gvitaly; 06-17-2021 at 04:30 PM.
Reason: Wanted to clarify a couple of things
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06-17-2021, 04:18 PM
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#13754
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
Makes a lot of sense from both sides.
I’d be super bummed to see Eichel land in the Pacific Division and not on the Flames.
Vegas, Edmonton, Anaheim, and LA would be all be set-up pretty nicely to battle for the top-4 spots…and who knows what Seattle ends up being.
I hear a lot of pundits slamming the outlook of the Pacific division, but I don’t quite understand that.
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It is based on having a number of very poor teams in the division.
In the last fuller season, 3 of the 7 teams that had less points than games were in the Pacific.
And last season, 6 of 12 teams that had less points than games played were teams that are making up the Pacific. Only 2 did not. Vegas and Edmonton.
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06-17-2021, 04:20 PM
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#13755
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
I get that people are disappointed in Monahan, but the over the top degradation of what he is on this board is preposterous, and getting worse by the day.
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Yes, this has moved beyond ridiculous now. Monahan still remains a top center with a skill that is impossible to teach. If the Flames put him on the market there would be interest from around the league and the returns would be way better than the naysayers here believe.
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06-17-2021, 04:27 PM
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#13756
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 0° latitude, 0° longitude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvitaly
yes, I made that comparison to convey a point. I don’t know which player is better. That’s why I said it was a matter of opinion.
What I observed in Monahan’s game 5 on 5 is concerning to say the least. Over the last two and a half seasons Monahan seems more like a PP specialist, and a 4th liner 5 on 5. I really hope that all his struggles are simply because of injuries. However even if they are all injury related we don’t know the degree to which they’ll heal. I found that once the Flames stopped scoring off the rush Monahan’s line didn’t have a consistent way of generating offence 5 on 5.
Honestly, I hope Monahan can recover, find his offence, and continue improving his defence. I know he is definitely trying out there! I have nothing bad to say about his effort, and i am routing for him. That said, I have a hard time believing in a miraculous recovery at the moment.
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Ah, I see where you are coming from now. Thanks
__________________
In Treliving We Trust!
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06-17-2021, 04:27 PM
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#13757
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald
Yes, this has moved beyond ridiculous now. Monahan still remains a top center with a skill that is impossible to teach. If the Flames put him on the market there would be interest from around the league and the returns would be way better than the naysayers here believe.
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This team needs more centers. It's hilarious to see people wanting to move Monahan and Backlund for pennies, especially when Sutter is a coach who craves and succeeds with C depth.
Trade Monahan and Backlund? LOL. This is how you end up with Ben 'first-line center' Street centering Iginla.
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06-17-2021, 04:41 PM
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#13758
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atb
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Seeing as I had overlooked the presence of a blue chip goaltending prospect in the Sabres system, I’ll revise my Ducks pitch for Eichel:
Comtois
Manson/Henrique
2021 #3OA pick
Maybe add Max Jones with the Sabres throwing in a 3rd or something
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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06-17-2021, 04:51 PM
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#13759
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvitaly
Yeah definitely exaggerated your exaggeration
I am in the full rebuild camp, but I don't see the ownership/management committing to one any time soon. I thought that the roster was structured to give this core a window until the end of 21/22 season. Then either make whole sale changes or rebuild. It seems like the direction has changed because the window seems to have shut a couple of years early.
A lot of players took a step back from the 2018/19 season and followed it up with another step back. Monahan went from a 1b center to a 2/3 center. Giordano from a Norris defenceman to a #3D. Gaudreau went from a superstar to a first line winger that needs some help 5 on 5. Tkachuk went from the future captain of this team and a superstar in the making to someone that looked disinterested and that I wasn't expecting to take over a game.
Again, I think they should rebuild. Trade everything and everyone for futures, including Lindholm. That's because I don't see the team's window of contention opening in the next 3 years. The only way it will happen is if the Flames get very lucky on trades, finding several players that would be a perfect fit in here.
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Gio falling off is to be expected given his age.
Monahan, I’m not convinced he is as bad as most are currently thinking.
Gaudreau played most of the season with an injured Monahan and a 4th line winger.
Tkachuk is the type of guy I truly believe thrives with fans in the seats, it’s not a good excuse or even a free pass for him but he isn’t what he was this season. He looked horrible you are not wrong but there were signs of him coming back around when they put him on a line with Johnny.
My overall point is I think it could be regrettable to trade players like Tkachuk after one bad season.
Players have bad seasons. Even the best of the best do. Kopitar after a 52pt season, in 16/17, was thought to be on the downside of his career. He followed that up with a 92pt season the following year and has been flirting with a pt/g pace since his down year.
Tkachuk is 23yo. This kids skill set is not depreciating.
He will only get better.
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06-17-2021, 09:05 PM
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#13760
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atb
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If Treliving allows Eichel to go to a divisional rival he should be fired on the spot.
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