United Airlines forcibly removes passenger on flight they (did not) overbook

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by nik-

I understand that a ticket isn't a legal bond for travel at a specific time, but suggesting that someone is executing poor planning for following the same thought process that results in a successful trip for the vast, VAST majority of the time is just ridiculous.

Nothing to do with alternative plans comes into the equation here. Sounds an awful lot like smarts in hindsight to me.

It's not 'god' or 'poor' planning. You just have some risk that things won't go exactly how you planned.

And if you don't like it, fly southwest, WestJet or whatever. The simple point is know what you are getting into. When you do, you don't say ' but he had a ticket'

[nik-]

I'm sure he will next time, just way richer though.

I personally have never planned around being bumped for a staff member unless I'm flying standby. I'm guessing most people don't, and that's a pretty reasonable stance to take.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I just want to correct one small detail that people are getting wrong.

United Airlines flight 3411 was NOT the last flight of the day from Chicago's O'Hare International Airport to Louisville.

United Airlines flight 4771 departed at 8:56pm CDT, whereas UA3411 was scheduled to depart at 5:40pm CDT.

Of note, UA3411 is operated by Republic Airlines, whereas UA4771 is operated by Trans States Airlines.

But given that no one was biting on the vouchers, why not bump the involuntary denied passengers to the next flight with a guaranteed seat and try again on the later flight to see if they can get enough volunteers?

I don't know when the flight crew needed to be in Louisville; perhaps they could have tried to bump them (although they then wouldn't be airline employees).

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

As they should, because they were too cheap to keep upping the reward and they royally effed it up. But my thing is someone had to get bumped. Everyone has jobs, families, duties they're going home to, it's really hard to quantify the "I need to be back home more than this person or that person." You should plan for all kinds of delays when you travel, I was at SFO when a lady was screaming at the ticket booth because her flight to Honolulu was cancelled for her daughter's wedding the next day. She was irate, and the reason the flight was cancelled was because they couldn't fix the nav system on the plane and they didn't have one in reserve. It's technically the airlines problem because its their plane but she obviously should have left herself some room for error. This stuff happens ALL THE TIME in air travel.

EDIT: and for Jayswin, I'm not saying that you should always leave a day, when I book flights I assume I'll be there the day of and I fly home the day before going to work all the time. But I do that with the knowledge that if something happened to delay me I wouldn't miss anything imperative. My example of the lady screaming at the SFO ticket counter would be an example of someone who should have booked with some better foresight.

Yeah...the 4 airline employees who were taking the seats.

You say you don't buy the doctor having to be back to see patients in the morning.

Then Im not buying that those 4 had to be in Louisville that night. Or they could have flown 4 different ones in from somewhere else.

To sit and say that those 4 were more important than the doctor is doing the exact same thing you complained about with the doctor. Nice double standards.

And Im sorry...but if i buy a ticket on a flight and i show up, am boarded, and sitting in my seat...your goddamn right I have a right at that point to get where im going..... on that plane. Unless I am intoxicated or preventing that plane from flying by my actions, they can suck an egg and I think any lawyer would back that up.

500+Million dollars in lost cap value....because they needed to treat their customers like crap instead of finding another crew or a way to get that crew to Kentucky.

Well done United, you have earned every bit of it.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I just want to correct one small detail that people are getting wrong.

United Airlines flight 3411 was NOT the last flight of the day from Chicago's O'Hare International Airport to Louisville.

United Airlines flight 4771 departed at 8:56pm CDT, whereas UA3411 was scheduled to depart at 5:40pm CDT.

Of note, UA3411 is operated by Republic Airlines, whereas UA4771 is operated by Trans States Airlines.

But given that no one was biting on the vouchers, why not bump the involuntary denied passengers to the next flight with a guaranteed seat and try again on the later flight to see if they can get enough volunteers?

Hmm, I've seen reports of that there were no flights with available seats that night.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...flight-n745161

Were you just looking if there was a physical flight or are you able to check historically if there are seats empty on old flights a week back? If there were in fact seats available, why didn't United get them on it instead of ripping people out of their seats on the earlier flight?

Haha meanwhile, they didn't even bother to take his luggage off after they dragged his beaten body off the plane. Left him and his wife had nothing when he had to go directly to hospital. They sent the luggage to his office to see his patients instead.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...runaround.html

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...the 4 airline employees who were taking the seats.

You say you don't buy the doctor having to be back to see patients in the morning.

Then Im not buying that those 4 had to be in Louisville that night. Or they could have flown 4 different ones in from somewhere else.

To sit and say that those 4 were more important than the doctor is doing the exact same thing you complained about with the doctor. Nice double standards.

And Im sorry...but if i buy a ticket on a flight and i show up, am boarded, and sitting in my seat...your goddamn right I have a right at that point to get where im going..... on that plane. Unless I am intoxicated or preventing that plane from flying by my actions, they can suck an egg and I think any lawyer would back that up.

500+Million dollars in lost cap value....because they needed to treat their customers like crap instead of finding another crew or a way to get that crew to Kentucky.

Well done United, you have earned every bit of it.

Did you not read anything I wrote on the previous page?? I "buy" that he's a doctor, what I don't buy is that he was entitled to not get bumped over other passengers that also had jobs to go to on a Monday. The airline had to move those four people in to operate a next flight otherwise 100 people would be delayed/cancelled instead of just 4. That's the calculus that airlines have to do that most people are too selfish/arrogant to acknowledge.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

But given that no one was biting on the vouchers, why not bump the involuntary denied passengers to the next flight with a guaranteed seat and try again on the later flight to see if they can get enough volunteers?

I used to have access to the United system and could have looked up their entire trip itineraries and loads/overbooking of every flight... really would have come in handy now. Without knowing or caring to read any further articles on this, I'm going to guess that the last flight maybe didn't have any seats open, and/or got into Louisville at such a time that it wouldn't provide adequate crew rest and would delay their sked for the next day.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...the 4 airline employees who were taking the seats.

You say you don't buy the doctor having to be back to see patients in the morning.

Then Im not buying that those 4 had to be in Louisville that night. Or they could have flown 4 different ones in from somewhere else.

I get that you're personally offended by this, but the fine print says a ticket is no guarantee of travel and prioritizing their own crew so that a dozen legs aren't delayed the next day is something every carrier does. The fact remains that the only thing United legally did wrong was try to bump post-board. I could explain a bit more about what may have gone into the decisions made but I have a feel you wouldn't care to hear it.

[Fuzz]

We were in Hawaii a few years ago, supposed to be going from the Big Island to Canada. Well, the plane arrived with a flight crew that only had a few hours left. The problem was that Air Canada just plum forgot to get the fresh flight crew from Oahu to the Big Island and I guess they all forgot to ask how they were getting there? It was the first flight season. I guess the 20 flights a day wasn't quite enough for them to work it out. So our tired flight crew flew the whole plane to them! Of course this meant about 6 hours of delays for more fuel, new flight plans etc. Well done Air Canada.

[Flames in 07]

A (small) step in the right direction

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/15/news...ing/index.html

[Reaper]

Just think, they could have flagged down a limo in front of the airport and had it drive the four employees to Louisville for under two grand (considering the last minute nature of the trip) and their reputation wouldn't have taken such a devastating hit.

[ken0042]

Something I was thinking about that I haven't seen- what did they end up doing with the flight out of Kentucky? Seeing as this flight didn't take off for another 3 hours- it would seem that United had to find another crew. It not being in the news- seems like they were able to.

Which begs the question- how badly did they need to get these 4 people there? United has 10s of thousands of employees- so I'd think there would be options for crew replacement- not just this option.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Acey

I get that you're personally offended by this, but the fine print says a ticket is no guarantee of travel and prioritizing their own crew so that a dozen legs aren't delayed the next day is something every carrier does. The fact remains that the only thing United legally did wrong was try to bump post-board. I could explain a bit more about what may have gone into the decisions made but I have a feel you wouldn't care to hear it.

One question I have not heard an answer to, is what was the plan for the crew to get there? Did they arrive late from somewhere else? Were they just counting on the plane having 4 empty seats without reserving them even thought they sold out the plane?

If it's the former, then I can understand your reasoning. If it's the latter, then I think that is a crappy way to run a business.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by ken0042

United has 10s of thousands of employees- so I'd think there would be options for crew replacement- not just this option.

Of note is that United doesn't fly to Louisville; it would have been a Trans States/ExpressJet/Republic crew for which there is almost surely not a pool of thousands to draw from on short notice as they run tighter margins in terms of crew availability.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

One question I have not heard an answer to, is what was the plan for the crew to get there? Did they arrive late from somewhere else? Were they just counting on the plane having 4 empty seats without reserving them even thought they sold out the plane?

If it's the former, then I can understand your reasoning. If it's the latter, then I think that is a crappy way to run a business.

Something would have went irregular earlier in the day for them to have to do this. Crews deadhead all the time, but you don't intentionally plan to have to involuntarily bump.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I "buy" that he's a doctor, what I don't buy is that he was entitled to not get bumped over other passengers that also had jobs to go to on a Monday. The airline had to move those four people in to operate a next flight otherwise 100 people would be delayed/cancelled instead of just 4. That's the calculus that airlines have to do that most people are too selfish/arrogant to acknowledge.

Entitled? Let's not forget, he just happened to be drawn for bumping, then was approached and he tried to refuse. It's not like he stood up and declared himself more important than the rest the second the airline decided they were bumping people. He simply gave his reasons why he'd like to keep his seat on his flight, when approached to be bumped off his flight. If he'd stood up and declared his importance before being approached, and pulled the whole "do you know who I am" routine, then you'd have a point. As it stands, you don't.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Hmm, I've seen reports of that there were no flights with available seats that night.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...flight-n745161

Were you just looking if there was a physical flight or are you able to check historically if there are seats empty on old flights a week back? If there were in fact seats available, why didn't United get them on it instead of ripping people out of their seats on the earlier flight?

Haha meanwhile, they didn't even bother to take his luggage off after they dragged his beaten body off the plane. Left him and his wife had nothing when he had to go directly to hospital. They sent the luggage to his office to see his patients instead.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...runaround.html

Originally Posted by Acey

I used to have access to the United system and could have looked up their entire trip itineraries and loads/overbooking of every flight... really would have come in handy now. Without knowing or caring to read any further articles on this, I'm going to guess that the last flight maybe didn't have any seats open, and/or got into Louisville at such a time that it wouldn't provide adequate crew rest and would delay their sked for the next day.



I get that you're personally offended by this, but the fine print says a ticket is no guarantee of travel and prioritizing their own crew so that a dozen legs aren't delayed the next day is something every carrier does. The fact remains that the only thing United legally did wrong was try to bump post-board. I could explain a bit more about what may have gone into the decisions made but I have a feel you wouldn't care to hear it.

It could have been that there were no more Republic flights that day which there were not. But checking FlightAware there was the second flight that operated, departed and landed.

I would assume that was also sold out, as apparently the doctor said he would volunteer and then changed his mind when he was told he wouldn't arrive until the next day (could have assumed he'd take the later flight).

I'm not an expert, but I would assume that United could have re-booked those removed on the later flight with a guaranteed seat, and asked for volunteers on the later flight. It's United handling the seats, they purchased the seats from the regional carrier, the regional carrier gets paid regardless if the plane runs full, empty or who is on it.

United also could have kept offering more for the vouchers, or switched to cash.

Lots of alternatives that an idiot in Nova Scotia can come up with; why couldn't United?

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Entitled? Let's not forget, he just happened to be drawn for bumping, then was approached and he tried to refuse. It's not like he stood up and declared himself more important than the rest the second the airline decided they were bumping people. He simply gave his reasons why he'd like to keep his seat on his flight, when approached to be bumped off his flight. If he'd stood up and declared his importance before being approached, and pulled the whole "do you know who I am" routine, then you'd have a point. As it stands, you don't.

Why would he think his reason for not wanting to get bumped would be more valid than anyone else? Than the mom that has kids to take to school the next day? Than the lawyer that has a discovery monday morning? Than the three previous people that already got up and left? It's impossible to quantify who needs to be home more than someone else, that's why United did their stupid reverse (although in this guy's case since he'll win a 7 figure settlement, actual) lottery.

I'm sure he didn't make a big show of the fact that he's a doctor, but you can still be entitled in thinking you're more important than other people and someone else should get off instead of you.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Why would he think his reason for not wanting to get bumped would be more valid than anyone else? Than the mom that has kids to take to school the next day? Than the lawyer that has a discovery monday morning? Than the three previous people that already got up and left? It's impossible to quantify who needs to be home more than someone else, that's why United did their stupid reverse (although in this guy's case since he'll win a 7 figure settlement, actual) lottery.

I'm sure he didn't make a big show of the fact that he's a doctor, but you can still be entitled in thinking you're more important than other people and someone else should get off instead of you.

If you include all of the patients that the Doctor has to see the next day, he is more important than the mom who's kid has school the next day.

[DiracSpike]

You might think so, good luck convincing the mom on that though

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Why would he think his reason for not wanting to get bumped would be more valid than anyone else? Than the mom that has kids to take to school the next day? Than the lawyer that has a discovery monday morning? Than the three previous people that already got up and left? It's impossible to quantify who needs to be home more than someone else, that's why United did their stupid reverse (although in this guy's case since he'll win a 7 figure settlement, actual) lottery.

I'm sure he didn't make a big show of the fact that he's a doctor, but you can still be entitled in thinking you're more important than other people and someone else should get off instead of you.

So you would also consider the mom entitled, who had to get home to her child? Or is it just the doc who is entitled?
I would guess there were a lot of people on that flight who didn't 'need' to get home that night. United just didn't offer them enough.

[Chell_King]

Stop Arguing you silly boys.