Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So then why is Obama to be more feared than the actual architect of the Patriot Act?

It's because he is not even American, he is Kenyan, and he hates America, everyone knows that.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

No, my post says I have posted before giving my opinions I would feel safer if I had one or even that I liked shooting them, opinions that arent't good enough reasons for people here. Hell, I have been told things like I am just another NRA /GOP sucker. Before Christmas I literally had 2 HATE messages from what I have to think is trolling posters ,since their join dates were recent, one of which said You should shoot yourself to see how much getting shot hurts ( or something to that effect), and I have also been told that I was raised/brought up wrong. That's not stuff that isn't right and I dont really have a want or a need to hear it again....If PIM got any messages or responses like I got I dont blame him for wanting to take a leave from CP.

To be fair, that was in context of one of your relatives teaching you to shoot critters for fun. That is objectively wrong. I don't think you could mount any sort of logical defense that killing an animal for your own amusement is a good thing.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by valo403

You are delusional

I think he's more ignorant than delusional.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yes, we must all ignore the 'drone war' that Obama has been a huge proponent of, and forget about all those innocent children that are caught in the crossfire because someone is trigger happy.

And those kill lists? Not a big deal at all.

How is a military operation comparable to domestic legislation?

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yes, we must all ignore the 'drone war' that Obama has been a huge proponent of, and forget about all those innocent children that are caught in the crossfire because someone is trigger happy.

And those kill lists? Not a big deal at all.

I'm pretty sure you've read my posts about the drone war in the past, Azure, and you already understand my stance on it. What does it have to do with American's needing to fear him and stockpile arms? Do you believe he's going to wage a drone war against the redneck south?

I see little reason to fear Obama more than the man that got them into this ridiculous predicament to begin with, the one that launched a full-out illegal war (which is far and away more disastrous an event than the drone war, for America and the innocents involved), the man that invaded another country with no game plan and did nothing but shake the bushes and watch a growing number of enemies pop out left, right and centre, and the very visionary and architect of the Patriot Act.

Mikey says he doesn't want me to "suck him into my partisanship", but he clearly is already displaying it. Bush did things that made the entire planet hate the country to the south of us. In the end he created more enemies for America than he ever destroyed. If there was one president or man in recent history that has been a great gun salesman, it's been Bush, not Obama, but we all know the reasons why certain people would choose to label Obama that over any other.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Sliver

To be fair, that was in context of one of your relatives teaching you to shoot critters for fun. That is objectively wrong. I don't think you could mount any sort of logical defense that killing an animal for your own amusement is a good thing.

To be fair it was still wrong and uncalled for. Here is my view and I will probably catch hell for this but unless you or the people who agree with calling me out for killing defenseless animals for my own gain are strict vegetarians then you're hypocrites. Cows, fish, poultry all defenseless animals killed so you can have something tasty to eat. Vegetarians are healthy enough we should just have a zero meat diet..... of course plants are also living things. We are all monsters.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

To be fair it was still wrong and uncalled for. Here is my view and I will probably catch hell for this but unless you or the people who agree with calling me out for killing defenseless animals for my own gain are strict vegetarians then you're hypocrites. Cows, fish, poultry all defenseless animals killed so you can have something tasty to eat. Vegetarians are healthy enough we should just have a zero meat diet..... of course plants are also living things. We are all monsters.

There is a difference between killing something for food and killing something for no reason other than you're a sadistic jerk.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

To be fair it was still wrong and uncalled for. Here is my view and I will probably catch hell for this but unless you or the people who agree with calling me out for killing defenseless animals for my own gain are strict vegetarians then you're hypocrites. Cows, fish, poultry all defenseless animals killed so you can have something tasty to eat. Vegetarians are healthy enough we should just have a zero meat diet..... of course plants are also living things. We are all monsters.

What was wrong and uncalled for? I find it hard to believe you are able to call criticism on a message board of what you did during your younger years as "wrong", but are unable to acknowledge those very acts you did as wrong.

Killing for thrills and killing for sustenance are two very different things; no one has said animals shouldn't be killed when food is required. I don't want to get into this again, mostly because it seems to hurt your feelings, but not all events are created equal, not all "upbringings" are as good and great as all others. Your moral subjectivism is a symptom of moral cowardice as far as I'm concerned.

[Daradon]

Killing to survive (even if there are other alternatives) is much different than killing for fun.

I don't think people here would kill chickens and cows if they absolutely didn't have to eat. The fact that there are alternatives, doesn't make it completely equal. There are lots of reasons why those alternatives aren't good, healthy, viable, cost effective, and yes even palatable for someone.

And the plants example just takes it to a silly extreme. We have to consume something do we not? Again, killing to survive every being on the planet does. Killing for fun? Pretty rare in the animal kingdom.

I do agree that more needs to be done about our food industry. However, that's a different topic and not an equal comparison.

[Minnie]

Shooting at Lone Star College

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

2500?

You think Americans only use their guns for defensive purposes 2500 times a year? It's a hell of alot higher than that.

It's not Mike, in fact it's much lower. We've had this discussion. I showed you how incredibly wrong your statistics were and you then changed the subject. Quit blowing smoke.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

There is a difference between killing something for food and killing something for no reason other than you're a sadistic jerk.

I was f'in 7 yrs old , I was so sadistic . Ridiculous ... This was discussed, I am sure most of you get the fact that there was nothing sadistic about it. Its what we did when we were young. We didnt think twice about it. Its a cultural difference that's all. I don't even know why we are going through this again, I guess i didn't learn my lesson last time.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Shooting at Lone Star College

Damn, it's never ending.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

I was f'in 7 yrs old , I was so sadistic . Ridiculous ... This was discussed, I am sure most of you get the fact that there was nothing sadistic about it. Its what we did when we were young. We didnt think twice about it. Its a cultural difference that's all. I don't even know why we are going through this again, I guess i didn't learn my lesson last time.

It is one thing to do stupid things when you're a kid but then when you grow up you acknowledge that you did those things because you were young and stupid. It is quite another to blame those stupid things on "a cultural difference" because you aren't acknowledging that those stupid things were in fact stupid.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

It is one thing to do stupid things when you're a kid but then when you grow up you acknowledge that you did those things because you were young and stupid. It is quite another to blame those stupid things on "a cultural difference" because you aren't acknowledging that those stupid things were in fact stupid.

Would I do it now ? No If I had a 7 yr old kid would I freak out and call my 7 yr old kid stupid if he was out shooting birds or whatever on the farm with a b.b gun or even a real gun? No. It's just what kids do in the farm, that's all. Nothing more and nothing less. Thats how I view it ? If that makes me a bad person with a broken moral compass well then.. I guess that's what I am.

[Daradon]

WP, ease up on the guilt eh? It's not like shooting little critters for fun is out of place here. I don't agree with it, but I've raised eyebrows even among adults when I said I wouldn't participate.

I don't think it's anything that NJ has to feel ashamed about, especially given the age. Now if he was bragging about doing it now, that would be different, but he's not. And he said he feels differently about it now.

This would go a lot smoother if we didn't have the personal attacks. I can see why he is so defensive.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not Mike, in fact it's much lower. We've had this discussion. I showed you how incredibly wrong your statistics were and you then changed the subject. Quit blowing smoke.

You didn't show me anything but your willingness to deny reality. You have to be a fool to not believe that a nation of 315 million with about as many guns does not use them for self defense purposes. Shootings in public spaces are routinely stopped by citizen gun owners (recently in Oregon), ....it just never makes national news. This doen't mean that people always kill the attacker, but a warning shot, brandishing, wounding etc.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by pylon

It is not even in the top 25 most dangerous in the US. Where are you getting your stats?

You're right I take that statement back.

Chicago is not THE most dangerous city in the world, but is routinely in the top 10 for murder rates in the US. They will most likely be #1 in 2013 though.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Would I do it now ? No If I had a 7 yr old kid would I freak out and call my 7 yr old kid stupid if he was out shooting birds or whatever on the farm with a b.b gun or even a real gun? No. It's just what kids do in the farm, that's all. Nothing more and nothing less. Thats how I view it ? If that makes me a bad person with a broken moral compass well then.. I guess that's what I am.

I partially agree, I remember shooting gophers with a pellet gun of some sort out on the farm when I was a kid. Seemed strange to be an encouraged activity, but I bought the whole 'gophers dig holes and then horses break legs' angle so I was good with it. We were under very close supervision and everything went well. I also recall going to friends farm where they enjoyed catching gophers with a noose around the top of the hole and then shooting at them while they ran around on the line, that seemed royally f'd up. I view the idea of a kid out shooting birds or whatever just because (and I'm assuming he isn't just out there shooting things by himself as a 7 year old, that's insanely irresponsible) as more of the latter than the former.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So then why is Obama to be more feared than the actual architect of the Patriot Act?

...you would have to ask the millions of Americans who have bought a gun since Obama has been president.

Maybe things have gotten worse since Bush left?