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Old 11-28-2022, 01:30 AM   #3181
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GGG, supposing that the law was inadequate, as you seem to be suggesting, what would you have had the government do?
The Law was perfectly adequate. The idiots charged and paid with upholding it were not.

If we didnt allow the Clowns to shirk their responsibilities this event wouldnt even be talked about.
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Old 11-28-2022, 01:33 AM   #3182
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GGG, supposing that the law was inadequate, as you seem to be suggesting, what would you have had the government do?
Not necessarily inadequate, it could be intentionally limiting the circumstances of its use.

But let’s say they need to act despite it not meeting the requirements. Then they are in a tough position, I think you have to act at that point but you also need to disclose what you are doing. When they went to the house for approval clearly state the basis for use of the emergencies act in the areas they were using the document in “good faith” and then present your case at the inquiry.

I’m disappointed in the government not releasing information during this inquiry. The two key questions have evidence that is not being released. The legal advice that that may or may not exist that the government received on the legality of using the EA is being blocked from the inquiry by privilege and the Feb 13 plan which could address the necessity of the act has been redacted.
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Old 11-28-2022, 06:25 AM   #3183
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I know you'd like to see what was in the Feb 13th plan, but you must be able to understand why it should be kept confidential, right?
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:08 AM   #3184
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Especially given that the convoy organizers are advertising their intentions to repeat the whole thing again.

I'm not sure the threat these wingnuts pose is over; I sure don't want the government thinking so.
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:38 AM   #3185
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I know you'd like to see what was in the Feb 13th plan, but you must be able to understand why it should be kept confidential, right?
I’d be happy if the commission chair and lawyer for the cclu were able to see it and cross examine Trudeau and others incamera on the sensitive portions and comment in abstract on the final report.
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:18 AM   #3186
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I don't see any need to question Trudeau on it, as he didn't read it either. He got a briefing from someone who had. It's not like we should expect the PM to read everything himself. But if someone who had seen it could testify to the same conclusion that was passed to Trudeau, that it wasn't much of a plan, and verify what happened a few days later was substantially different than that plan, that should be well enough to move on.

I don't think any of us need to see it, and it would be a detriment to release it. But yes, someone should be able to speak to it in the general sense that Trudeau has.
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Old 11-28-2022, 12:35 PM   #3187
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I don't see any need to question Trudeau on it, as he didn't read it either. He got a briefing from someone who had. It's not like we should expect the PM to read everything himself. But if someone who had seen it could testify to the same conclusion that was passed to Trudeau, that it wasn't much of a plan, and verify what happened a few days later was substantially different than that plan, that should be well enough to move on.

I don't think any of us need to see it, and it would be a detriment to release it. But yes, someone should be able to speak to it in the general sense that Trudeau has.
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Old 11-28-2022, 06:42 PM   #3188
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1597378915286261760

Hopefully Showtime!
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:22 PM   #3189
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Lol that reminds me, where is PP hiding these days lately?
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:22 PM   #3190
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Do you really think there is a chance your man Pee-pee will make you proud?
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:34 PM   #3191
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A spring election, or anytime next year, doesn't seem feasible. Trudeau has the NDP support so why bother? There is little to indicate that the Liberals would be better off with an election sooner rather than later.
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:19 PM   #3192
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The old "#### Rolls Downhill".

The buck starts at the top with the PM, then the Premier, the Mayor, the various policing heads, down the cops on the beat.

The Freedom Convoy was such a politically inspired event, that I think a lot of the cops probably sided with the protesters.

I believe the whole event shows a sad lack of leadership from the top down. And that, coupled with our divisive, political game playing PM, were largely responsible for the enormity of the protest and the length of time it was allowed to proceed.

As I see it, the use of the EMA was used at the last minute to gain points politically, as it somewhat makes up for the sad lack of action by our PM thoughout the whole event.

just my biased opinion

Just a comment on ‘divisive’ PM Trudeau. There’s no question he picks sides to score political points, but he was hated long before he became PM. Is he the only one being divisive?
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:12 AM   #3193
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Azure said

The foreign involvement may not have risen to the level of a threat, that can be debated. But some of it existed.
I agree that with US donations to the GoFundMe plus probably crypto stuff, one has to question if foreign actors were involved.

I personally have a big issue with any US funding for the convoy or oilsands protests, and I think our government hasn't taken it seriously enough for the past decade.

But if CSIS says the involvement had not 'risen to the level of a threat' it sure is hard to justify invoking the EA when it clearly states it should only be used if the 'security of Canada is threatened.'

End of the day I think we all agree that the protests should have been cleared, along with the blockades, but I do not believe the EA was necessary.

Now we know that the blockade on the border was costing our economy & the US economy billions, and if our biggest trading partner starts giving ultimatums, and the police are not doing their job clearing it out, the Liberals probably felt the EA was the only way forward in a short amount of time.

But that still is not justification enough IMO.
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:14 AM   #3194
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For all the insults Trudeau takes it sure is nice to see him taking all questions reasonably at the commission, and answering the best he can. This is a good showing of democracy, and really makes Rob Doug Ford look the coward for declining to even show up.

If only Question Period were as civil as this has been.
I think Ford would really be exposed if he had to testify. Too much working both sides of the fence to further his political goals.

Trudeau had been consistent throughout the entire ordeal, which even if I strongly disagree with his policies, he at least isn't a roaring hypocrite about it.
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:17 AM   #3195
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I do. If I heard correctly, the head of the RCMP said they had a plan in place to do just that. However, Trudeau either didn't receive it, ignored it, or had already decide they were going ahead with the EA. Besides, I believe a deal had been worked out with the city of Ottawa, and the trucks and people were beginning to disperse when the EA was initiated.

I believe there was lots of evidence presented on both sides, for people to think they are right in either being for or against the EA.

Just my biased opinion.
My opinion is Trudeau knew about the RCMP plan, but was concerned that it wouldn't be effective enough, and at the same time the Biden Administration was giving an ultimatum which pushed Trudeau into a corner where he felt there was only one way forward. Given the police incompetence up to that point, understandable that he would feel that any plan they would present would be dead in the water.

Also given how Canadian voters are so quick to give him a pass on corruption & scandals, easy to believe that this would blow over as well.
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:21 AM   #3196
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Couple of comments…

Healthcare is a provincial responsibility, so a large amount of blame falls at the feet of the UPC (and Doug Ford in Ontario)

That said, I definitely think we should have a national procurement strategy and regulation to ensure that minimum levels of service are being delivered - not just for medication but for services. Unfortunately I don’t think the provinces (particularly Ford, Smith, Moe, etc) would allow that to be set up. Especially in the procurement area for hospitals, the feds should take charge like they did for the COVID vaccines, and let the provinces deliver the goods. Maybe they are, I don’t know…

Of course, the private enterprise producing these items adds another billion layers of complexity, especially in the current “just in time” and “no waste” environment. Over production is not acceptable but then shortages are a real risk.

It all needs to work together to work… or in this case not work
Tripping over yourself to make excuses for the Liberals incompetence.

Health Canada has the power, means & resources for drug procurement.

Have you not been paying attention to how we obtained COVID vaccines the past 2 years? Why is this any different?

And after that, yes it is absolutely also a provincial problem.

But blows me away that people are making excuses for Health Canada, a federal organization, when they have literally come out and said they have actually managed to get off their ass and managed to secure some supply on certain items.
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:26 AM   #3197
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You're being disingenuous in you arguments though; the topic you asked about has been asked and answered several times, in discussions you've been apart of, it's just annoying.
I actually thought it was a great discussion in the light of the federal inquiry and how government officials have testified, but then you and PepsiFree came along and spouted your standard trash, and here we are.
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Old 11-29-2022, 07:19 AM   #3198
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Tripping over yourself to make excuses for the Liberals incompetence.

Health Canada has the power, means & resources for drug procurement.

Have you not been paying attention to how we obtained COVID vaccines the past 2 years? Why is this any different?

And after that, yes it is absolutely also a provincial problem.

But blows me away that people are making excuses for Health Canada, a federal organization, when they have literally come out and said they have actually managed to get off their ass and managed to secure some supply on certain items.

I’m not making excuses for Health Canada. I just believe(d) that procurement for a pandemic vaccine (under health emergency rules) was different than normal day to day procurement.

If it is not, then my bad, but being involved with Shoppers Drug Mart or London Drugs (or your neighbourhood pharmacy) buying and stocking Tylenol, Advil, and Ventolin (to add in one more medicine) from their respective private vendors would not be something they are usually involved with.

This empty shelves situation is certainly not normal but whether that allows or mandates them to get involved is outside the realm of my knowledge.

— also it has nothing to do with Liberals vs Conservatives
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Old 11-29-2022, 07:56 AM   #3199
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Well in case you haven't been paying attention, this is a health emergency. Tylenol Infants' Acetaminophen Suspension Concentrated Drops as an example is sold out everywhere and has been for a while. Children's hospitals are overwhelmed with no end in sight.

The fact that we have gotten to the point where there WERE empty shelves or extremely limited supply going back to Oct, and then Health Canada pops up on Nov 14 and says 'oh my bad, guess we'll get some supply' and ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO DO THAT, speaks to absolute sheer incompetence on their part.

Heads should roll for this, and we should start with elected federal & provincial officials that have mandate over drug procurement.

Boggles the mind that people haven't been paying attention the past 2 years when it came to COVID vaccine supply, and the role of the federal government with procurement, and now with this they're all like 'cry, cry, don't blame my hero Trudeau and his government.'

Pathetic.
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Old 11-29-2022, 07:58 AM   #3200
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So is the call for Health Canada to have a more active role in drug ordering for private companies, or is the call to have some kind of strategic stockpile of medications?


I'm not sure the former is desired by companies, and I'm not sure there could really be justification for the latter when the costs come for replacing everything by the 'sell by' date.


Or like vaccine production, do we want the government to fund some acetaminophen and ibuprofen production lines whether there's a business case for it or not?
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