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Old 02-23-2022, 10:02 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
If the Russian's take the sky's the Ukraine military won't last long. And the Russians are different, militarily they're willing to take on a bloody war. It took a long time for the cost of blood to force the Soviets home in Afghanistan. Their whole culture is based around bloody conflict. And frankly Putin won't care.


Plus everyone loves a winner at home, if Putin flattens Ukraine fairly quickly then he won't see much opposition at home.
This is why I was saying Ukrainians need to make this as prolonged and bloody as possible. Slim chance of that I know, but hopefully they make use of some Western provided weapons, not that those munitions will last very long. Hopefully they can stall long enough that other countries come around and provide military aid of some kind.

As for Russian culture being based around bloody conflict, they can't really afford doing that anymore with the whole demographics problem they have. But that might not be Putin's problem tho since probably he'll be dead by then one way or another.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:02 PM   #42
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He's holding to his word to reform the Soviet Union.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:03 PM   #43
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Ukraine declares martial law
https://twitter.com/user/status/1496701812925026310

Last edited by FlameOn; 02-23-2022 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:03 PM   #44
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Take a scroll through the timeline over the last 5 hours and be anything but aghast. This is a modern country being blitzkrieg'd

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:03 PM   #45
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Is he crazy enough to retaliate with nukes if anyone steps in?
he's 69 years old, and wants his Empire before he dies, he has nothing to lose. If someone steps in, I'm wouldn't bet against it.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:04 PM   #46
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Is he crazy enough to retaliate with nukes if anyone steps in?
Yes. Any Western military directly confronting Russia would quickly show the ugly underparts of their military power and embarass Putin and the national pride.

Nukes would be quick imo.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:04 PM   #47
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Tweet is gone. I’m going to assume it’s BS. I hope it is anyway.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:05 PM   #48
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I can't actually verify the accuracy of this, but it is a translation someone on Reddit provided of a speech by President Zelensky pleading with the Russian people to oppose this action.
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I have initiated a call today with the president of the Russian Federation. The result - silence. Although silence should be in Donbass.

That is why today, I want to come with an appeal to all citizens of Russia. Not as President. I am appealing to the people of Russia as a citizen of Ukraine. We share more than two thousand kilometres of border. Around it, today, is your army: almost 200,000 soldiers; thousands of military units. Your leadership has approved their movement towards us. Towards the territory of another country. This step can become the start of a big war on the European continent. The whole world is talking about what can happen any day now. A reason can appear at any moment. Any provocation. Any spark. A spark that has the potential of burning everything down.

You are told that this flame will bring freedom to the people of Ukraine. But the people of Ukraine are free. They remember their past, and are building their own future. They are building it, not destroying it, as you are told everyday on TV. Ukraine in your news and Ukraine in reality are two completely different countries. The most important difference is that ours is real.

You are being told that we are nazis. But how can a nation be called nazist after sacrificing more than 8 million lives to eradicate nazism. How can I be a nazi, when my grandfather has survived the whole war as part of the Soviet infantry, and has died a colonel in an independent Ukraine. You are told that we hate Russian culture. But how can a culture be hated? Any culture. Neighbours are always enriching each other culturally. Yet, that does not make them one entity, and does not separate people into “us” and “them”. We are different, but that is not a reason to be enemies. We want to build our own history. Peacefully, calmly, and truthfully.

You are told that I am ordering to attack the Donbass. To shoot. To bomb without questions. Although there are questions: To shoot at whom? To bomb what?

Donetsk? To which I have been dozens of times. I have seen their faces and eyes.

Artema street? On which I have been on many walks with my friends in the past.

Donbass arena? Where I have been rooting with the locals for our boys during the Euros.

Shcherbakova Park? In which we were drinking together after our team has lost

Lugansk? The home of my best friend’s mom. The place where my best friend’s father is buried.

Note that I am now speaking in Russian, yet no one in Russia understands what these names, streets, and events mean. This is all foreign to you. Unknown. This is our land. This is our history. What are you going to fight for? And against whom?

Many of you have visited Ukraine in the past. Many of you have relatives here. Some of you studied in our universities. Befriended Ukrainian people. You’re familiar with our character, with our people, our principles. You know what we cherish the most. Look inside you, listen to the voice of reason, of common sense. Hear our voices. The people of Ukraine want peace. Ukrainian authorities want peace. We want it, and we make it. We do everything in our powers. We are not alone. It’s true, Ukraine is supported by many countries. Why? Because we are not talking about peace at any cost. We are talking about peace, and about principles, justice. About everyone’s right to define their own future, of safety, and everyone’s right to live without threat. All this is important to us. All this is important for peace. I know for sure that this is also important for you. We know for sure that we don’t want war. Neither cold, hot, or hybrid.

But, if we are threatened; If someone is trying to take away our country, our freedom, our lives. The lives of our children. We are going to defend ourselves. Not attack. Defend. By attacking us, you are going to see our faces. Not backs. Our faces.

War is a big distress, and it has a big price - in all meanings of this word. People lose their money, reputation, quality of life, freedom, and most importantly, people lose their loved ones. Lose themselves. A lot of things are always lacking in war. But what is in abundance is pain, dirt, blood, and death. Thousands. Tens of thousands of deaths. You are told that Ukraine is a threat to Russia. This was not true before, not now, and won’t be in the future. You are demanding security assurances from NATO. We are also demanding assurances of our security. The security of Ukraine from you. From Russia. And from other signatories of the Budapest memorandum. Today, we are not part of random security alliances. The security of Ukraine is tied to the security of our neighbours. That is why we are now talking about the security of all Europe. But our main goal is peace in Ukraine, and the safety of our citizens. Of Ukrainians. We are determined to let everyone know about this, including you. War is going to deprive everyone of any assurances. No one will have assurances of security.

Who is going to suffer from this the most? The people.

Who does not want this more than anyone? The people.

Who can prevent all this from happening? The people.

If these people are among you. I am sure they are. Public figures, journalists, musicians, actors, athletes, scientists, doctors, bloggers, stand-up comics, tiktokers, and others. Ordinary people. Ordinary, simple people. Men, women, old, young, fathers, and most importantly - mothers. Just as much as the people in Ukraine, no matter how much they try to convince you of the opposite.

I know that my announcement will not be aired on Russian television. But the citizens of Russia have to see it. They need to know the truth. And the truth is, that this needs to stop, before it’s too late. And if the authorities of Russia don’t want to talk to us, for the sake of peace, maybe they will talk to you.

Do the people of Russia want war? I would’ve very much liked to be able to answer this, but the answer depends only on you - citizens of the Russian Federation.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:05 PM   #49
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That doesn't narrow it down much. Anywhere from nukes to throwing puppies.
I’m against both for what it’s worth.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:07 PM   #50
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Tweet is gone. I’m going to assume it’s BS. I hope it is anyway.
I hope it was BS, that would be ideal
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:09 PM   #51
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This is why I was saying Ukrainians need to make this as prolonged and bloody as possible. Slim chance of that I know, but hopefully they make use of some Western provided weapons, not that those munitions will last very long. Hopefully they can stall long enough that other countries come around and provide military aid of some kind.

As for Russian culture being based around bloody conflict, they can't really afford doing that anymore with the whole demographics problem they have. But that might not be Putin's problem tho since probably he'll be dead by then one way or another.

Ammunition burns fast in a war. The Ukrainian's don't have enough of it, they don't have enough highly trained troops, and the reserves they just called up are going to get chewed up.

If the Russian's are unleashing their air power they will smash the Ukrainian air force which is really about 30 Mig 29's and 30 SU 27's which is probably facing the Russian version of the varsity club. they won't last long, and that's going to make troop movement for the Ukraine's very difficult.

Plus the Russian's are really the kings of the kitchen sink strategy.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:09 PM   #52
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We should avoid posting unverified twitter posts. It will all come out quickly by real sources.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:11 PM   #53
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Air raid sirens going off in Kyiv heard on this live feed.

https://youtu.be/uJ6AzlYCysY
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:12 PM   #54
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We should avoid posting unverified twitter posts. It will all come out quickly by real sources.
Agreed; won't be so hasty to post these reports until confirmed from legit sources.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:13 PM   #55
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Crazy that the west will just give Russia Ukraine instead of flattening Moscow. Might be time to carve up Russia, a la post wwii Germany. I know it’s a fever dream, but man… Putin is unhinged.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:20 PM   #56
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Crazy that the west will just give Russia Ukraine instead of flattening Moscow. Might be time to carve up Russia, a la post wwii Germany. I know it’s a fever dream, but man… Putin is unhinged.
Flattening Moscow would be insane.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:20 PM   #57
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What did the tweet say?
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:20 PM   #58
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Not as easy as it sounds.

If it gets crazy, someone inner circle close will send it home.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:21 PM   #59
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Well #### balls.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:23 PM   #60
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What did the tweet say?
It reported that Russia was also bombing the capitol of Moldova.
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