Yeah, NATO isn't as unified as they like to promote.
Who promotes NATO as unified? They're a treaty that exists for one purpose: Mutual defence of existing territory against expansionist threat. Orban not respecting the territorial integrity of a non-member state doesn't in any way change the unity of NATO against it's stated intention. You can bet that Orban would invoke article 5 if Russian troops touched his border. Same with Turkey; they have absolutely no requirement to defend Ukraine or to allow food shipments. They are not in those types of alliances with the West. They are in a defence alliance, and they are using all of the influence they can and their positional importance to maximize the benefit for their people. Frankly that's what a government is supposed to do. Is it noble? No, but stop conflating the unity of NATO for meaning they are 100% aligned on all policy. Absolutely not- NATO has a single purpose and all members have shown pretty thoroughly that they are absolutely invested in at least that one purpose.
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Just a little story about some of the UA refugees here in Calgary:
Spoiler!
My wife works at a place where it is predominantly Eastern European workers. About 90% Ukrainians, a few Russians, a Lithuanian, Romanian and Kazakh. They all get along great. The boss threw quite the staff party for them at a restaurant over the weekend. Open bar all night, unlimited food, great dancing and music. Overall a great time. It was great to see just how happy and how much fun everyone was having (alcohol played a roll I'm sure!) given the circumstances of their arrival here in Calgary, and the worries they still have about loved ones back home.
Most of these people are from the war-torn regions in Ukraine. One woman who stuck out for me is from Mariupol who is here with her daughter. She hasn't seen her husband since March. The day the city was attacked, her husband called her from work and told her to pack her things and leave with her daughter immediately, not to wait for him. She packed some stuff and drove all the way to Poland, without her husband. Recently he escaped through Russia, is in Poland and is awaiting his visa to Canada. Finger's crossed it's all good to be approved.
Another story that stuck out is one woman who came with her husband and 2 adult children. Her husband turned out to be a giant POS, was abusing her and she took adult kids (who are both now attending U of C), got a mortgage and moved out to their own place. She works 2 jobs 7 days a week to make this happen, while biding her time to allow her adult children the opportunity to get an education to have a better future. My wife was crying while this lady told us her story. Brave woman indeed.
While it was great to see all these Ukrainians here together, celebrating the holidays on the boss' bill, it was also sobering to remember that most are NOT here by choice. It's great to see them here and get to know them, but also tragic to know they were forced from their homes and separated from their loved ones in order to have a shot at a future here in Calgary. ~10 months ago Calgary wasn't even a city they had heard of. Now they live here, working towards a better life.
These are but a few of the stories I have heard from my wife's friends, along with the stories from the 2 refugees we have staying with us from Kherson. Great to see/hear a lot of UA refugee success stories here in Calgary. But sobering to know their circumstances and tragedies. Most of these people know a lot of people who were killed, are missing, kidnapped or raped by Russian occupiers. The stories are endless, heartbreaking and infuriating.
The demilitarization and fall of the Russian state cannot come soon enough.
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Yet another thread about many great people doing unbelievable humanitarian work in Ukraine. Really hope that history never forgets the lengths in which these people have stood up and gone to bat for one another during these awful times. Incredibly inspiring stuff.
Just a little story about some of the UA refugees here in Calgary:
Spoiler!
My wife works at a place where it is predominantly Eastern European workers. About 90% Ukrainians, a few Russians, a Lithuanian, Romanian and Kazakh. They all get along great. The boss threw quite the staff party for them at a restaurant over the weekend. Open bar all night, unlimited food, great dancing and music. Overall a great time. It was great to see just how happy and how much fun everyone was having (alcohol played a roll I'm sure!) given the circumstances of their arrival here in Calgary, and the worries they still have about loved ones back home.
Most of these people are from the war-torn regions in Ukraine. One woman who stuck out for me is from Mariupol who is here with her daughter. She hasn't seen her husband since March. The day the city was attacked, her husband called her from work and told her to pack her things and leave with her daughter immediately, not to wait for him. She packed some stuff and drove all the way to Poland, without her husband. Recently he escaped through Russia, is in Poland and is awaiting his visa to Canada. Finger's crossed it's all good to be approved.
Another story that stuck out is one woman who came with her husband and 2 adult children. Her husband turned out to be a giant POS, was abusing her and she took adult kids (who are both now attending U of C), got a mortgage and moved out to their own place. She works 2 jobs 7 days a week to make this happen, while biding her time to allow her adult children the opportunity to get an education to have a better future. My wife was crying while this lady told us her story. Brave woman indeed.
While it was great to see all these Ukrainians here together, celebrating the holidays on the boss' bill, it was also sobering to remember that most are NOT here by choice. It's great to see them here and get to know them, but also tragic to know they were forced from their homes and separated from their loved ones in order to have a shot at a future here in Calgary. ~10 months ago Calgary wasn't even a city they had heard of. Now they live here, working towards a better life.
These are but a few of the stories I have heard from my wife's friends, along with the stories from the 2 refugees we have staying with us from Kherson. Great to see/hear a lot of UA refugee success stories here in Calgary. But sobering to know their circumstances and tragedies. Most of these people know a lot of people who were killed, are missing, kidnapped or raped by Russian occupiers. The stories are endless, heartbreaking and infuriating.
The demilitarization and fall of the Russian state cannot come soon enough.
Thank you for posting. Whenever I read these stories it reaffirms my belief that the democratic countries Canada, the US, Australia, Europe, Japan, etc have to keep being the light.
On Nov. 22, Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov reported that a Russian S-300 missile launcher was used to carry out an attack on a maternity ward in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, killing a two-day-old newborn and injuring the mother.
Quote:
The Ukrainian military has “demolished” the Russian unit behind the deadly missile strike on a maternity ward in Vilniansk, Zaporizhzhia Oblast
I love the way the 'workers' just wander around doing nothing and not even looking like they are even acting well, you can sense the director off camera telling them to close the door and look busy through their earwigs
A great video about the first hours of the war and how close Russia truly was to a decisive win that could have drastically shifted the outlook of the war and the fall of Kyiv much more probable.
This is the video that is being talked about from CNN, on Feb 24
At the time we had absolutely no idea how extremely important preventing these 18 planes from landing after VDV lost control of the airport truly was. The Battle of Antonov Airport is one of those historically significant battles that will be studied for a very long time.
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Who promotes NATO as unified? They're a treaty that exists for one purpose: Mutual defence of existing territory against expansionist threat. Orban not respecting the territorial integrity of a non-member state doesn't in any way change the unity of NATO against it's stated intention. You can bet that Orban would invoke article 5 if Russian troops touched his border. Same with Turkey; they have absolutely no requirement to defend Ukraine or to allow food shipments. They are not in those types of alliances with the West. They are in a defence alliance, and they are using all of the influence they can and their positional importance to maximize the benefit for their people. Frankly that's what a government is supposed to do. Is it noble? No, but stop conflating the unity of NATO for meaning they are 100% aligned on all policy. Absolutely not- NATO has a single purpose and all members have shown pretty thoroughly that they are absolutely invested in at least that one purpose.
Sure, I get that a diverse alliance will have countries that have different priorities. When it comes to the territorial integrity of members, they do promote a united stance on that. I am surprised that would even be in question. The whole point of the alliance is to ensure that every inch of territory among its members is secure, so having a head of state openly promote irredentism against four other NATO members and a country currently partnered with NATO certainly puts a wedge in the unified defense agenda.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 12-01-2022 at 10:55 AM.
Sure, I get that a diverse alliance will have countries that have different priorities. When it comes to the territorial integrity of members, they do promote a united stance on that. I am surprised that would even be in question. The whole point of the alliance is to ensure that every inch of territory among its members is secure, so having a head of state openly promote irredentism against four other NATO members and a country currently partnered with NATO certainly puts a wedge in the unified defense agenda.
I think it is you who misunderstands NATO, or have been wrapped up in this view that it constitutes a US led policy hegemony. It doesn't at all. It is extremely limited in scope. What NATO member was Orban promoting irredentism against? You mention 4. Ukraine is not a NATO member, maybe never will be, so any action taken against or in spite of Ukraine has no bearing at all on the terms of NATO.
BBC reporting Putin's demanded pre-requisite for ceasefire talks is international recognition of all annexed parts of Ukraine. i.e. give us everything we want with no consequences. Anyone still thinking negotiations or a compromise are possible with Putin still in power is deluded. Pound sand Putin.