Abbotsford 2nd last in AHL attendance

[burnin_vernon]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

It must be hard for the Heat players to have more cheers when they get scored against in their home arena than when they score.

That wasn't the case last night. Awesome crowd noise heavily in favor of the Heat. Good amount of boos when each Moose shooter came up for the shootout.

[rubecube]

I'm still not sure why they chose Abbotsford of all places. Somewhere like Kelowna or further east in B.C. would've made a lot more sense. Hell, why not put an AHL team in Regina or Saskatoon?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm still not sure why they chose Abbotsford of all places. Somewhere like Kelowna or further east in B.C. would've made a lot more sense. Hell, why not put an AHL team in Regina or Saskatoon?

There's an unwritten rule not to invade CHL (WHL) cities.

although it might make sense to move the AHL Heat to Saskatoon and move the Blades to Abbotsford.

[D_J]

7,022 in attendance tonight for the game against the Moose....Sellout. Hopefully the Canucks fans who enjoy the game of hockey saw enough to come back and take in some Heat games.

Nothing against being a Canucks fan (I am one) but I'm also a fan of the sport of hockey. I am fully capable of cheering for the Heat and also being a Canucks fan but unfortunately I'm not so sure that very many Canucks fans are on the same page........

It seems that around here that being a Canucks fan and being a hockey fan are not the same thing..

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm still not sure why they chose Abbotsford of all places. Somewhere like Kelowna or further east in B.C. would've made a lot more sense. Hell, why not put an AHL team in Regina or Saskatoon?

Saskatoon does seem like a no-brainer for a Calgary farm team. It's a booming hockey city that is geographically close (in Canadian terms).

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Saskatoon does seem like a no-brainer for a Calgary farm team. It's a booming hockey city that is geographically close (in Canadian terms).

As a poster mentioned earlier, the AHL doesn't move to WHL markets.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by shermanator

As a poster mentioned earlier, the AHL doesn't move to WHL markets.

Yes, but that's an outdated line of thinking, and that trend really should be bucked.

I think either Saskatoon or Regina would completely embrace an AHL team. They have the populations and likely the fanbases too to support one. Especially if it's a Calgary or Edmonton farm club.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by shermanator

As a poster mentioned earlier, the AHL doesn't move to WHL markets.

Yet.

Until recently, there really weren't any WHL cities worthy of an AHL team. Saskatoon is growing up.

It's too convenient to say that they haven't set up in WHL markets when none were really suitable. Besides, Abbotsford already violates the spirit of that with Chilliwack right there. I lived in Chilliwack for several years and they are essentially in the same market as Abbotsford.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm still not sure why they chose Abbotsford of all places.

10 year contract in a brand new arena with guaranteed revenue of $5.7M or the city makes up the shortfall - doubt they'd find a better deal than that

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yet.

Until recently, there really weren't any WHL cities worthy of an AHL team. Saskatoon is growing up.

It's too convenient to say that they haven't set up in WHL markets when none were really suitable. Besides, Abbotsford already violates the spirit of that with Chilliwack right there. I lived in Chilliwack for several years and they are essentially in the same market as Abbotsford.

Saskatoon, Regina, Seattle and Portland have always had the market to support AHL level pro hockey and have done so in the past. The thing is, an old adage says, 'you don't bite the hand that feeds you' and the CHL is the main feeder for the NHL and they wouldn't like the CHL to start demanding big bucks for graduating juniors like the Euros are now doing.

It should be possible for the AHL to move into these cities but it would have to be negotiated so the junior owners are satisfied and it doesn't create a backlash among the hockey public.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Saskatoon, Regina, Seattle and Portland have always had the market to support AHL level pro hockey and have done so in the past. The thing is, an old adage says, 'you don't bite the hand that feeds you' and the CHL is the main feeder for the NHL and they wouldn't like the CHL to start demanding big bucks for graduating juniors like the Euros are now doing.

It should be possible for the AHL to move into these cities but it would have to be negotiated so the junior owners are satisfied and it doesn't create a backlash among the hockey public.

Good points on Seattle and Portland, although they are still questionable. Population-wise, they would be suitable, but are they hockey crazy enough to support a farm team or would their heart be set on getting a major league team?

I still have to disagree on Regina and Saskatoon (until now).

But if you are talking about the whole CHL and not the WHL, it is noteworthy to point out that Quebec city was a CHL city (1997) before an AHL city (1999) and Toronto had the St. Mike's juniors before the Roadrunners played there for a season.... so obviously exceptions have been made in the past.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Good points on Seattle and Portland, although they are still questionable. Population-wise, they would be suitable, but are they hockey crazy enough to support a farm team or would their heart be set on getting a major league team?

I still have to disagree on Regina and Saskatoon (until now).

But if you are talking about the whole CHL and not the WHL, it is noteworthy to point out that Quebec city was a CHL city (1997) before an AHL city (1999) and Toronto had the St. Mike's juniors before the Roadrunners played there for a season.... so obviously exceptions have been made in the past.

Regina and Saskatoon both had franchises in the old pro WHL. It was on the AHL level and at times extended from San Diego to Winnipeg so pro hockey in those cities has worked before and it isn't just that Saskatoon suddenly became big and rich enough for pro hockey.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Regina and Saskatoon both had franchises in the old pro WHL. It was on the AHL level and at times extended from San Diego to Winnipeg so pro hockey in those cities has worked before and it isn't just that Saskatoon suddenly became big and rich enough for pro hockey.

The Saskatoon team existed for 7 seasons in the 1950s. Even Brandon Manitoba had a team in the 50s. Seattle had like 4 teams. I would hardly call that on the same level as the AHL at that point.

Saskatoon is now the fastest growing city in Canada (grew more than 10% in the last 4 years - this is new) and as people move there from other places, the demand for better entertainment value is going to go up.

[rubecube]

Another thing to look at for a team in Saskatchewan is that there'd be an instant rivalry with the Moose to boost attendance.

EDIT: Also don't know why they didn't look at Victoria as a possible market. It's only a 45 minute difference in flight time and they'd have a larger population to draw from. The Salmon Kings do pretty well for attendance and they're only an ECHL team.

[walleye]

The Moose-Heat games are all sellouts, but other Heat games generally garner half the attendance of those games. IMO, the location of the rink is a poor choice, and the parking is woefully inadequate. Yes, it's just off the freeway, but the exit is poorly designed, and it's a pain in the butt to get to the arena. I attended a Heat-Moose game last season, and it took over an hour to get through the ridiculous traffic and into a parking spot. Combine that with over an hour drive to get there, and that's a lot of time and gas wasted, just for an AHL game.

Also, being so far in the valley, they are unlikely to draw crowds from Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond, etc. Abbotsford does have some population, but it's mostly farmland out there in the valley, low density population on average. The fact that it's the AHL franchise of arguably the Canuck's most bitter rival doesn't help matters, either.

The Moose and the Heat should just switch buildings, IMO. Keep the team names and locations, but switch the personnel. Winnipeg is already a well established AHL market, and the Heat would take off if they were the "baby Canucks".

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Just noticed that the Heat are 29th in the AHL with an attendance of 2893 so far. I know that they have not played the Moose yet, but for a city who was supposedly starved for an AHL team, this number is very disappointing.

Can anyone in Abbotsford elaborate on the situation? Is it the same apathy towards the Flames AHL team as last year?

the city, as in city council, wanted the team to fill their new building. the city, as in the population, i am not so sure of.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by walleye

The Moose and the Heat should just switch buildings, IMO. Keep the team names and locations, but switch the personnel. Winnipeg is already a well established AHL market, and the Heat would take off if they were the "baby Canucks".

The only problem with that is that the Heat are owned by the Flames owners while the Moose are independently owned (not owned by the Canucks). We'd basically have to convince the Canucks send their prospects to a team owned by the Flames and then the Flames would have to negotiate a deal with the Moose, because I certainly couldn't see the Moose owners wanting to switch places with Abbotsford right now.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Saskatoon team existed for 7 seasons in the 1950s. Even Brandon Manitoba had a team in the 50s. Seattle had like 4 teams. I would hardly call that on the same level as the AHL at that point.

Saskatoon is now the fastest growing city in Canada (grew more than 10% in the last 4 years - this is new) and as people move there from other places, the demand for better entertainment value is going to go up.

The old WHL was easily on par with the AHL and in those days not all the best players did or wanted to play in the NHL. They could often earn as much or more playing in the minor leagues and many remained to play in the WHL. Some had been blackballed by the NHL and in those days had no unions or rights. If you go over the rosters of some of these teams, you'll find some great players. The league wasn't as much of a development league as the AHL but this allowed the WHL to pick up players that would now be playing in the KHL or other Euro leagues.