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Old 07-18-2018, 04:46 PM   #81
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There are fewer things I've been more confident in than the Flames finishing above the Oilers this season. The room for error up there is so small given that so much depends on so few. Calgary already had the edge on them even with the multitude of things that went wrong and now has the depth and options to sustain injuries and doesnt need one or two guys (including rookies/sophomores) to perform out of their minds in order to be competitive.

It's not even close, and I couldn't say that going into the last couple seasons. And now that I can, it feels good man.

But get who knows, maybe Mcdraibot the three man team will embrace the underdog role and drag their carcass of a roster to a wildcard spot.

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Old 07-18-2018, 04:51 PM   #82
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Edmonton is going to finish bottom 4 in the division.

Calgary is going to finish top 3.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:08 PM   #83
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Edmonton is going to finish bottom 4 in the division.

Calgary is going to finish top 3.


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Old 07-18-2018, 07:09 PM   #84
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Edmonton is going to finish bottom 4 in the division.

Calgary is going to finish top 3.
Oh yeah? Well, Edmonton is going to finish top 8 in the division, and Calgary is going to finish bottom 8. Neener neener neener.

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:13 PM   #85
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How much do you think player movement, one-time shots, variety, adjustments, and cross-ice passes contribute to a solid PP? Because GG thinks those don't matter.
I thought Dave Cameron was in charge of the PP?

GG was the head coach so ultimately you can hold him responsible, but do you honestly believe that the coaches in Calgary don't believe in player movement, one-time shots, cross-ice passes, and creativity?

When you look up and down the roster in Calgary, most of the players scored PP points in line with their historic production.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Ferland had career highs. Lots of other guys in the ballpark in terms of expected PP production based on career norms. Giordano was down. Versteeg had one of his best PP seasons in years last season so they missed that production. Brouwer's production dried up but his pp icetime did as well.

Who are the guys that GG or Cameron stifled?

The margins between an average PP and a bad one aren't huge. Versteeg's missing goals from two seasons ago added to the Flames of last season would have given them a league average PP.

I'm not sure why fans are baffled that they tried Brouwer on the PP. He and Versteeg were the only right handed PP viable options for the Flames last season. Jagr likely was supposed to fill that gap too, but it didn't work out.

Compare Calgary to a team with a consistently top PP like Washington. Washington's PP isn't some secret Da Vinci code. They run the same general setup as every other team in the league, and they have a few set options that they reuse all year, every year. Other teams know that they will try these options, but the Caps just have the players to execute them so they can't be effectively stopped.

They have a sublime left handed playmaker in Backstrom set up on the half wall. Then they have three right handed shots cocked and waiting for a pass. Oshie in the middle just like Monahan. Carlson on the point. Ovechkin on the Versteeg side. Oh yeah, Washington also has a top 3 point getter as their goal line guy.

Compare that to Calgary. They have had Gaudreau playing on the "wrong" side on the PP. Left handed player on the left side doesn't have as good of an angle to attack/shoot at the net, but would it be more effective to have him on the right half boards? Then he'd be passing to everyone on their backhands because they are all also left handed shots.

Maybe it would be better to have Gaudreau on the right wall, but I'm not really an expert in PP theory, and I think 99% of the fans are in the same boat as me.

Hamilton had a right handed shot but he's not really suited to play the top position on the PP IMO because he's not a slapshot guy. He scores by walking in with a wrister.

Calgary also doesn't have the perennial 30 point PP guy like a Giroux, or a heavy shooter like a Stamkos/Weber/Ovechkin. There are maybe 10ish teams that have one of those guys so Calgary is at a disadvantage right off the hop. There are 31 teams competing every year and a third of them have to be in the bottom ten. If you don't have proven, elite PP performers your team is likely to be in the bottom 20 unless you really get the bounces.


I frequent enough different hockey sites to see that the coach more often than not bears the brunt of the outrage when special teams don't perform up to fan expectations.

I'm not convinced that it's very fair though.

Last edited by Oil Stain; 07-18-2018 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:41 PM   #86
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Who are the guys that GG or Cameron stifled?
I guess you must have somehow missed the hundreds of posts last season wondering why the blazes wasn't Hamilton on the 1D4F first powerplay.

Also the myriad of angry complaints about Brouwer being on the powerplay.
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Compare Calgary to a team with a consistently top PP like Washington. Washington's PP isn't some secret Da Vinci code. They run the same general setup as every other team in the league, and they have a few set options that they reuse all year, every year. Other teams know that they will try these options, but the Caps just have the players to execute them so they can't be effectively stopped.
Oshie hit a post. We would need AC's help to get the actual PK footage because Washington did nothing else worthy of the highlight reel on the powerplay, but the Flames penalty killers were very impressive and well-prepared that night.

Cameron just thinks by lining up four forwards and a D and having them stay still while passing the puck around will lead to magic. It's disgusting to watch, like he's running a light drill and working on puck movement instead of getting it in the back of the net.

I have an gut feeling Ward will finally try Johnny out on the right side. He has had success when tried there in special teams.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:09 AM   #87
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I guess you must have somehow missed the hundreds of posts last season wondering why the blazes wasn't Hamilton on the 1D4F first powerplay.

Also the myriad of angry complaints about Brouwer being on the powerplay.

Oshie hit a post. We would need AC's help to get the actual PK footage because Washington did nothing else worthy of the highlight reel on the powerplay, but the Flames penalty killers were very impressive and well-prepared that night.

Cameron just thinks by lining up four forwards and a D and having them stay still while passing the puck around will lead to magic. It's disgusting to watch, like he's running a light drill and working on puck movement instead of getting it in the back of the net.

I have an gut feeling Ward will finally try Johnny out on the right side. He has had success when tried there in special teams.
I never saw them practice, and I've certainly never seen Cameron's whiteboard, but I have a feeling he drew all the arrows correctly, and wanted the puck to go to the right places. He just didn't get them to do it with any kind of speed or deception.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:42 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Oil Stain View Post
I frequent enough different hockey sites to see that the coach more often than not bears the brunt of the outrage when special teams don't perform up to fan expectations.

I'm not convinced that it's very fair though.
So the Oilers terrible special teams last season were on McDavid and Co? It's a bit of both obviously but I think top coaching can put lesser players in positions to succeed while poor coaching can put good players in positions to fail as we saw in Calgary last season. Sometimes coaches get in the way of success.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:18 PM   #89
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So the Oilers terrible special teams last season were on McDavid and Co? It's a bit of both obviously but I think top coaching can put lesser players in positions to succeed while poor coaching can put good players in positions to fail as we saw in Calgary last season. Sometimes coaches get in the way of success.
Can you provide any examples of coaches who consistently get top ten PP performances when having average players?

Most times when I look at PP stats they will fluctuate a lot from season to season even with the same coach and the majority of the same players. Did the coach get stupid from one season to the next?

I'm not sure you necessarily need to blame anyone for poor special teams performance.

Fans always want a scapegoat, and sometimes there are smoking guns, but a lot of the time there aren't any definitive answers. Teams only play an average of about 400 minutes per year on the PP. That's about 6-7 games worth of PP time.

If you took a random 6-7 game snapshot of the NHL would it accurately represent the quality of each team?

There's a decent chance that the top five teams and the bottom five teams would be in the same spots. The rest would be all over the map.

And that's special teams in a nutshell.
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