[PGT] Painful loss to the Ducks

[Igottago]

Technicalities about line names aside, Monahan's performance hasn't been good enough as a top 6 forward. Hopefully it is just getting back to speed after his surgery, but his drop off is pretty concerning, the Flames obviously need him to be what he was a couple years ago. If he can't get there its a big setback for the team.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You saying it over and over does not make it fact.




You are defining Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube as a "top two line" all by yourself. They've gotten soft usage (often played with our 3rd pair, which is how Mangiapane scored his goal). Monahan has not played like a top six forward in about a year. Dube is consistently in Sutter's doghouse. Coleman is the Flames big offseason signing, do you really think Darryl is thinking "nice. we really needed a 3rd liner"?

Being a shutdown line does not make a line a 3rd line. They are not a pure checking line.



Lucic is one of our better analytic players, including 5v5 point production last year, and yet is trusted offensively by the coach to play on our second powerplay unit. Sounds like an arbitrary rule of thumb.

Every single website, tv broadcast graphic, tweet ect. listed them as the 3rd line so whatever. Lucic didn't play in the top six in the first two games IMO. The lines now if they stick are a little more grey to be fair. Although Lucic is definitely on the fourth line now.

agree to disagree I guess we are ruining the thread

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

He's Cheechoo'd himself. He's not just done in Calgary.

It's a little soon for that. He's been a very consistent scorer until one rough injury-plagued season last year. He may need to be reunited with Gaudreau to be effective. But if the team is determined to play Lindholm at C that may not happen.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk are both natural LWs. Monahan's a triggerman who needs a set-up winger to be successful. Both Tkachuk and Gaudreau are that. I would argue neither Dube nor Mangiapane play that role.

I would try these lines.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Coleman
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Lucic-Backlund-Dube

[dissentowner]

Step away from the ledge, it is 2 freakin games in. The Flames have generated plenty of shots, a good sign. They lost to a team with possibly the two best forwards in the game and another team that thumped the Jets and has arguably the best goalie in the NHL imo. It is early, relax. The Buffalo Sabres and Blue Jackets are 2-0. The Red Wings are undefeated in regulation. The NYI are 0-2, so are the Jets. Let's wait until the quarter way mark before acting like Lemmings.

[agulati]

Echo this completely. They have looked fine in most facets of the game. A couple of lapses in game 1, and generally had a tough time scoring. The shooting percent is around 4. That is obviously not sustainable even in the worst circumstances.

They are not going to be a top team, but the division is weak. They will be fine.

[nik-]

It's like Groundhog Day.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Technicalities about line names aside, Monahan's performance hasn't been good enough as a top 6 forward. Hopefully it is just getting back to speed after his surgery, but his drop off is pretty concerning, the Flames obviously need him to be what he was a couple years ago. If he can't get there its a big setback for the team.

I'm willing to give him some rope. I was pretty pro-moving Monahan, just for the cap space all summer. However, what I saw is that having 3 legit NHL centres allowed guys like Mangiapane and Gaudreau to get extra ice time. This really gave the Flames the ability to just overwhelm the opposing team with charge after charge of top line wingers with legit NHL centres.

....I mean it didn't work out for them this game. Hot goalie?...but it was exciting to watch. I'm definitely willing to see what Sutter can keep doing with the current group.

[agulati]

Im waiting to finally see Sutter put together the lines he started training camp with

Coleman-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane
Dube-Backlund-Pitlick
Lucic-Lewis/Gawdin-Richardson/Lewis

[calumniate]

Wasn't disappointed in Lewis.. he was kind of a surprise.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Step away from the ledge, it is 2 freakin games in. The Flames have generated plenty of shots, a good sign. They lost to a team with possibly the two best forwards in the game and another team that thumped the Jets and has arguably the best goalie in the NHL imo. It is early, relax. The Buffalo Sabres and Blue Jackets are 2-0. The Red Wings are undefeated in regulation. The NYI are 0-2, so are the Jets. Let's wait until the quarter way mark before acting like Lemmings.

I'll bet this exact post has been made for the last 7 seasons after game 2. Yet here we are, the same team and still...oh so average.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by agulati

Im waiting to finally see Sutter put together the lines he started training camp with

Coleman-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane
Dube-Backlund-Pitlick
Lucic-Lewis/Gawdin-Richardson/Lewis

I think Coleman would play RW. IIRC he’s more familiar with it than Tkachuk.

I think those lines work best though. Pitlick is wasted if he’s not on a checking line.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Step away from the ledge, it is 2 freakin games in. The Flames have generated plenty of shots, a good sign. They lost to a team with possibly the two best forwards in the game and another team that thumped the Jets and has arguably the best goalie in the NHL imo. It is early, relax. The Buffalo Sabres and Blue Jackets are 2-0. The Red Wings are undefeated in regulation. The NYI are 0-2, so are the Jets. Let's wait until the quarter way mark before acting like Lemmings.

First few games always get blown out of proportion.

It is unfortunate that we have another multi day break, as people are bound to stew over a very small sample size.

There is another 40 two game sets.

40 of them. And each will come with a different prevailing storyline.

Exactly zero conclusions should be drawn from these two games except encouragement from the uptempo game they have brought so far.

Much, much better than two poorly played games. It doesn't seem like it, but it could easily be worse.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

First few games always get blown out of proportion.

It is unfortunate that we have another multi day break, as people are bound to stew over a very small sample size.

There is another 40 two game sets.

40 of them. And each will come with a different prevailing storyline.

Exactly zero conclusions should be drawn from these two games except encouragement from the uptempo game they have brought so far.

Much, much better than two poorly played games. It doesn't seem like it, but it could easily be worse.

It's a funny attitude about the 1st few games. I know this is surprising but some teams actually start the season on time and play consistently all year. It's just that the Flames never do it and it has become a sustained pattern.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

I'll bet this exact post has been made for the last 7 seasons after game 2. Yet here we are, the same team and still...oh so average.

And there are probably 15 other fanbases saying the same thing. There are about 8 Elite Teams, 7 Bad Teams, and 16 Average teams. That's just the NHL with a salary cap era.

If you look over the last 5 seasons there are:

-8 Teams with a points percentage over .600: Tampa Bay, Washington, Boston, Pittsburgh, Vegas, Toronto, Nashville, St.Louis

-16 Teams Between .531 and .596: Minnesota, Winnipeg, Carolina, Columbus, New York, Florida, Calgary, Philadelphia, Edmonton, San Jose, Dallas, Colorado, Montreal, New York, Chicago, Anaheim

-7 Bad Teams below a .495 points percentage: LA, Arizona, New Jersey, Vancouver, Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit

5 years is a long time so there are teams that move in and out of these Buckets but this is how it generally works. Nashville/St.Louis probably more in the middle now, Colorado and Carolina moved up to top tier. Vancouver probably more in the middle tier with Chicago dropping down.

It is frustrating that the Flames re-build was rushed, and that we didn't really get that true elite center that would push us into the top tier, but that's the same story for the majority of the NHL. Takes a lot of luck and good timing to end up in that top tier.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

First few games always get blown out of proportion.

It is unfortunate that we have another multi day break, as people are bound to stew over a very small sample size.

There is another 40 two game sets.

40 of them. And each will come with a different prevailing storyline.

Exactly zero conclusions should be drawn from these two games except encouragement from the uptempo game they have brought so far.

Much, much better than two poorly played games. It doesn't seem like it, but it could easily be worse.

And this is the key. People are projecting the failures of the past 2 seasons (and 18-19 playoffs) onto what we've seen in these 2 games so far.

This team has been a truly average team the last couple years but visually and statistically they've looked better in these two games than they have at any point since the all-star break of the 18-19 season. And that's promising to me.

[talladega.25]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Step away from the ledge, it is 2 freakin games in. The Flames have generated plenty of shots, a good sign. They lost to a team with possibly the two best forwards in the game and another team that thumped the Jets and has arguably the best goalie in the NHL imo. It is early, relax. The Buffalo Sabres and Blue Jackets are 2-0. The Red Wings are undefeated in regulation. The NYI are 0-2, so are the Jets. Let's wait until the quarter way mark before acting like Lemmings.

While I get this completely. The flames have a historical track record here. Hence the skepticism from fans. This group..core or whatever does not have the wiggle room. I think it is fair to say that their past two seasons warrant general concern, here we are again with this group still doing relatively the same thing which exacerbates this. This fan base has been close to that "ledge" since the Avs thumped us in April of 2019 (plus factor the 4-5 seasons before that). Approaching 2022 and its deja vu night in and night out. It is a results driven industry and this Flames team have left a lot to be desired for a decade now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

While I get this completely. The flames have a historical track record here. Hence the skepticism from fans. This group..core or whatever does not have the wiggle room. I think it is fair to say that their past two seasons warrant general concern, here we are again with this group still doing relatively the same thing which exacerbates this. This fan base has been close to that "ledge" since the Avs thumped us in April of 2019 (plus factor the 4-5 seasons before that). Approaching 2022 and its deja vu night in and night out. It is a results driven industry and this Flames team have left a lot to be desired for a decade now.

That's pretty much it. The historical track record and a slim margin of error make the 2 losses to open the season difficult.

While it is somewhat encouraging that they played well enough to win, especially against the Ducks, routinely losing games that you should have won is what breaks the mental strength of a team and this team has shown that it is mentally fragile in the past.

They will win some that they probably don't deserve to as well, so it probably balances out over the season. We still don't know if the team over the past two games can sustain the effort or if they tune out Sutter after a small sample of adversity. They seem to do that frequently.

[TheIronMaiden]

I ain't gonna worry until after October is over, but if they are .500 or lower then its time to plan for 2022. This team needs every point they are going to scramble if they want to make the playoffs.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by BigRed

It's a little soon for that. He's been a very consistent scorer until one rough injury-plagued season last year. He may need to be reunited with Gaudreau to be effective. But if the team is determined to play Lindholm at C that may not happen.

I mean, it's been more than "one" injury plagued season. But I've been on the "Trade Monahan asap because he's magic beans" train for years. He's a winger playing center who can score when he has an elite passer playing with him. Problem is most elite passers are they themselves at center. When the talk was "Gaudreau or Monahan" a few years ago, I was adamant the answer was Gaudreau and you do Monahan now before everyone realizes. They waited, and now everyone realizes.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I ain't gonna worry until after October is over, but if they are .500 or lower then its time to plan for 2022. This team needs every point they are going to scramble if they want to make the playoffs.

November 23rd...that's 20 games and they have a 3 day break after that. If they don't have at least 22 points in that time then you start to look at a teardown.

@ Oilers: Loss
Ducks: OTL

@ Red Wings
@ Capitals
@ Rangers
@ Devils
@ Penguins
Flyers
Predators
Stars
Rangers
Sharks
@Canadiens
@Maple Leafs
@Senators
@Flyers
@Sabres
@Islanders
@Bruins
Blackhawks

Not the easiest schedule with 13 road games and 7 home games in that time, especially since it's two eastern trips, but if they can come out of this with say 24 points then that sets them up well for the rest of the year.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

I'll bet this exact post has been made for the last 7 seasons after game 2. Yet here we are, the same team and still...oh so average.

So if they’re average why are people ####ting their pants like we’re the 1983 New Jersey devils?

This reaction on CP is not one reflective of an average team performing exactly to expectations.