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Old 12-03-2019, 08:53 AM   #61
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Marc Crawford is one of the best examples I can think of a pro athlete or coach who has a media personality and a real personality.
That was Hartley as well. So jovial with the media. Dick to the players.

I'm starting to wonder if Torts had two personalities but in reverse.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:05 AM   #62
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When I went to elementary school (80's) the "strap" was just getting phased out. It was a rural school so probably a bit behind the urban schools. When that was gone, if you really deserved it, the long soft chalk brushes may be used against you. I did see the shorter wooden backed chalk brushes thrown in the general direction of a poorly behaved student.

My point. None of this is acceptable anymore and rightfully so. But, all of those teachers weren't "investigated" either. It's going to be a long ugly road if the NHL has to investigate all coaches who brought out the "strap". I would hope it's pretty clear that method of motivation had better be dropped from any coaches play book in this day and age.

For you Millenials :

Spoiler!


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Off topic, but you do know that millennials were born between 1981 and 1996, right? I would bet most know what a chalk brush is.

You might be getting millennial and gen z mixed up
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:07 AM   #63
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That was Hartley as well. So jovial with the media. Dick to the players.

I'm starting to wonder if Torts had two personalities but in reverse.
I remember hearing Bob McKenzie talk about Torts when they worked together at TSN & after Bob understood Torts love of Dogs he said to John, “Oh I get it now, you treat dogs like people and people like dogs.”

The response was, “shut up Bob.”
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:14 AM   #64
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Avery deserved it.

Sopel probably not so much.
Going back in time with all these allegations, you have to wonder what Crawford did to Jovonovski in 2004 when Jovo took the high sticking minor penalty late in game 7 against the Flames.

Same goes for Cloutier when he let in some weak playoff goals in the 2003 series against the Wild.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:49 AM   #65
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If you were both hockey players you could punch him in the face...might get a minor penalty though

the NHL is not like your office
Your flawed logic might have a leg to stand on if Marc Crawford was actually an NHL hockey player.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:52 AM   #66
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1201719372739436545


For what it's worth...
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:14 AM   #67
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I really hate this 'Go back' justice that is becoming the norm, holding todays standards to days gone by. I am all for learning from the past, being better and improving the way we speak and behave to each other but trying to get someone to lose their job for a swift kick in the ass when your playing bad (which is the accusation from Avery only, regardless of what everyone else on here says they know about Crawford) , come on that just sounds like someone with an axe to grind. Life and sports at the highest level are hard and sometimes you need a good kick in the ass to get you going in the right direction.

I guess you can all say goodbye to these lovely winning coaches that everyone wants, as it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't all been abusive ( a definition that seems to have new things added every day) at one time or another.
Try to keep up. It's not just Avery, it's Sopel and Patrick O'Sullivan. Also, try and look at this from another perspective instead of "go back justice".

Crawford has also had over a decade to reach out to these people and apologize for his behaviour.

It's a simple act no one needed to know and if it occurred then that would legitimize his feelings of remorse and we probably wouldn't hear anything about it.

It takes what? a 30 second phone call to 5 or 10 people in the summertime? But he's a chickenhawk coward

He had the opportunity for all of this and he didn't do it so he's made his bed.

As for winning coaches, last time I checked Joe Sakic has two Cups and his coaches only have one.

Rosters are more important than coaching when it comes to winning.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:29 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour View Post
When I went to elementary school (80's) the "strap" was just getting phased out. It was a rural school so probably a bit behind the urban schools. When that was gone, if you really deserved it, the long soft chalk brushes may be used against you. I did see the shorter wooden backed chalk brushes thrown in the general direction of a poorly behaved student.

My point. None of this is acceptable anymore and rightfully so. But, all of those teachers weren't "investigated" either. It's going to be a long ugly road if the NHL has to investigate all coaches who brought out the "strap". I would hope it's pretty clear that method of motivation had better be dropped from any coaches play book in this day and age.

For you Millenials :

Spoiler!


Spoiler!
I had a long response typed out, involving my dad and how our relationship has affected all my relationships.

Shorter version abuse ####s you up and any steps to help/heal the victim(s) are a good thing.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:31 AM   #69
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Look it goes both ways...pro sports is nothing like your Joe Blow lives so quit bringing it up.

I'm not the one who keeps saying "do such and such at your office" just the one who keeps shooting it down. Its apples and oranges

Sure there is a line but a pro sports coach certainly has more leeway than supervisor Ron at Walmart when it comes to tough love.

I mean Chelios was so upset with Babcock he signed 3 separate UFA deals to stay on his team.
Ok. Why don't we make a comparison between Pro Sports and Professional Music? They're both entertainment. How well do you think any of this behavior would be tolerated, let alone condoned 10 years ago?

You're missing the point completely.

The problem is the culture of sports and the power imbalance that enables emboldens, and even celebrates predatory personalities. This isn't just a hockey issue.

It is a completely different day and age. Any coach anywhere has access to a bottomless amount of knowledge, skills, and understanding of human psychology and physiology to avoid resorting to simplistic tactics of bullying, belittling, and abusing people to maximize their potential.

Yeah, some people are harder to reach or to motivate, but at the highest levels of the sport, that is why they're paid the big bucks.

It's complete garbage and should have ceased 20 years ago after Graham James, but it didn't.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:32 AM   #70
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Off topic, but you do know that millennials were born between 1981 and 1996, right? I would bet most know what a chalk brush is.

You might be getting millennial and gen z mixed up
As a millenial, can confirm this. I know what a chalk brush is. I also know what's it like to be nearly thirty and not afford a house a due to crippling student loans and astronomical inflation within a broken economy. What a wonderful time to be alive. But that, is a topic for another time.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:35 AM   #71
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1201877552408748032

I didn't know this. Brad McCrimmon was a good man and a hell of a coach.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:37 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by nobles_point View Post
Try to keep up. It's not just Avery, it's Sopel and Patrick O'Sullivan. Also, try and look at this from another perspective instead of "go back justice".

Crawford has also had over a decade to reach out to these people and apologize for his behaviour.

It's a simple act no one needed to know and if it occurred then that would legitimize his feelings of remorse and we probably wouldn't hear anything about it.

It takes what? a 30 second phone call to 5 or 10 people in the summertime? But he's a chickenhawk coward

He had the opportunity for all of this and he didn't do it so he's made his bed.

As for winning coaches, last time I checked Joe Sakic has two Cups and his coaches only have one.

Rosters are more important than coaching when it comes to winning.
how do you know he hasn't? especially as you said, "no one needs to know" which includes us, the public.

look at Carcillo's tweet just above.

appears he may have regretted past behaviour and embraced change before this series of events happened. he's not just doing it because everything is now coming out.



and I hate the whole reaching out thing, many years later. just like the AA 12 steps.
sometimes it's best to let the past die. not everyone wants a years belated apology which seems to be designed to make the perp feel better, not the victim.

some of you may feel differently, but I've been wronged and I sure as heck wouldn't want the person 10 years later to contact me to say sorry.
you were a bully and also hit me 10 years ago? you cheated on me? you were a drunk and ruined our life at the time? (for example)
a sorry is close to meaningless.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:58 AM   #73
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Who’s going to be coach of the Avalanche, Blackhawks, Blue Jackets, Blues, Bruins, Canadiens, Canucks, Capitals, Coyotes, Devils, Ducks, Flyers, Golden Knights, Hurricanes, Islanders, Jets, Kings, Leafs, Lightning, Oilers, Panthers, Penguins, Predators, Rangers, Red Wings, Sabres, Senators, Sharks, Stars, or Wild next season?
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:01 PM   #74
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how do you know he hasn't? especially as you said, "no one needs to know" which includes us, the public.

look at Carcillo's tweet just above.

appears he may have regretted past behaviour and embraced change before this series of events happened. he's not just doing it because everything is now coming out.



and I hate the whole reaching out thing, many years later. just like the AA 12 steps.
sometimes it's best to let the past die. not everyone wants a years belated apology which seems to be designed to make the perp feel better, not the victim.

some of you may feel differently, but I've been wronged and I sure as heck wouldn't want the person 10 years later to contact me to say sorry.
you were a bully and also hit me 10 years ago? you cheated on me? you were a drunk and ruined our life at the time? (for example)
a sorry is close to meaningless.
Apparently you also hate capital letters at the start of a sentence.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:50 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by nobles_point View Post
Try to keep up. It's not just Avery, it's Sopel and Patrick O'Sullivan. Also, try and look at this from another perspective instead of "go back justice".

Crawford has also had over a decade to reach out to these people and apologize for his behaviour.

It's a simple act no one needed to know and if it occurred then that would legitimize his feelings of remorse and we probably wouldn't hear anything about it.

It takes what? a 30 second phone call to 5 or 10 people in the summertime? But he's a chickenhawk coward

He had the opportunity for all of this and he didn't do it so he's made his bed.

As for winning coaches, last time I checked Joe Sakic has two Cups and his coaches only have one.

Rosters are more important than coaching when it comes to winning.
Reading through your subsequent posts in this thread it is rather obvious that you are very quick to accuse coaches of not apologizing, despite the tweet by Carcillo being posted literally RIGHT after your post.

You have NO idea if any of these coaches went back to the players to make things right, nor is it any of our business how they handled things internally, and how teams try to work to help coaches deal with this kind of coaching style. Workplace issues happen ALL the time, and teams, companies, etc are constantly evolving to try and deal with the problems in a better way. The analogy of the strap is a very good one. If we start going back and ruining the lives of coaches, teachers, bosses, etc that in the past did stuff that isn't acceptable now, the result will be a bloody mess.

The whole 'trial by social media BS' is going to result in a massive problem real quick here.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:31 PM   #76
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Try to keep up. It's not just Avery, it's Sopel and Patrick O'Sullivan. Also, try and look at this from another perspective instead of "go back justice".

Crawford has also had over a decade to reach out to these people and apologize for his behaviour.

It's a simple act no one needed to know and if it occurred then that would legitimize his feelings of remorse and we probably wouldn't hear anything about it.

It takes what? a 30 second phone call to 5 or 10 people in the summertime? But he's a chickenhawk coward

He had the opportunity for all of this and he didn't do it so he's made his bed.

As for winning coaches, last time I checked Joe Sakic has two Cups and his coaches only have one.

Rosters are more important than coaching when it comes to winning.

But what if he considers what he did as not a bad thing? Why would he reach out and apologies for something that was from a different time and not considered wrong at that time, just because its not the way to coach today. Who knows if it wasn't the that fact that he drove his players so hard that they managed to achieve what they did in the sport, but now they don't see it that way after they have retired or out of the NHL.
Let's be honest how quickly does a quick apology phone call suddenly turn into being sued, are you going to take that chance just becasue it's the 'right thing to do', probably not.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:32 PM   #77
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Apparently you also hate capital letters at the start of a sentence.
nice petty response.
good for you. that sure validates your opinion of Crawford.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:35 PM   #78
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One unsupported tweet from Sean Avery gets Crawford suspended. Incredible.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:36 PM   #79
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One unsupported tweet from Sean Avery gets Crawford suspended. Incredible.
Let's not pretend he doesn't deserve it, whatever triggered it this time. Scumbag shouldn't be in the league
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:59 PM   #80
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As a millenial, can confirm this. I know what a chalk brush is. I also know what's it like to be nearly thirty and not afford a house a due to crippling student loans and astronomical inflation within a broken economy. What a wonderful time to be alive. But that, is a topic for another time.
Sorry for the derail, but "astronomical inflation"?
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