Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It doesn't, though. It's intrinsic value is basically zero. If you disagree, please explain.


And it's fine if you don't care, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

No thanks, I'm going to bow out. It's just not worth it. No amount of reason or evidence will change your opinion on BTC, and honestly I just came to the realization that I don't care whether or not it does.

Bitcoin will continue on like it always has no matter what you believe, and many people will continue to invest in it and make money whether you join in or not.

I have never owned any bitcoin, and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be buying any bitcoin either. I own other crypto and believe that while bitcoin isn't going anywhere and will appreciate during this next cycle and over the long haul, I have put my money in crypto that I hope and believe will perform even better.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I get that, but I just don't care at all personally.

It has enough intrinsic value to last 15 years and force it's perceived value to outperform pretty much every other asset on the planet in that time.

Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value and there’s no perceived value either. Everyone who puts their money into Bitcoin does so solely with the hope they’ll be able to sell it for more than they bought for. That’s it. That’s the equation.

Bitcoin has no value at all. The only thing it has is its exchange listings registering the last traded $ amount. There’s no real analysis possible as to why its $ went up or down.

It didn’t have a poor quarterly earnings report. It didn’t have a product recall. It didn’t release a revolutionary new product. It didn’t acquire or get acquired by a competitor. It didn’t have an unemployment report. It didn’t have a military invasion. It didn’t have a swing in GDP, debt or interest rates.

It went up because fiat was moved into the market. It went down because fiat was moved out of the market. (Or some combination of trade in or out with other crypto)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value and there’s no perceived value either. Everyone who puts their money into Bitcoin does so solely with the hope they’ll be able to sell it for more than they bought for. That’s it. That’s the equation.

Bitcoin has no value at all. The only thing it has is its exchange listings registering the last traded $ amount. There’s no real analysis possible as to why its $ went up or down.

It didn’t have a poor quarterly earnings report. It didn’t have a product recall. It didn’t release a revolutionary new product. It didn’t acquire or get acquired by a competitor. It didn’t have an unemployment report. It didn’t have a military invasion. It didn’t have a swing in GDP, debt or interest rates.

It went up because fiat was moved into the market. It went down because fiat was moved out of the market. (Or some combination of trade in or out with other crypto)

Ok

Stay on the sidelines then. Makes 0 difference to me either way. It's all good.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No thanks, I'm going to bow out. It's just not worth it. No amount of reason or evidence will change your opinion on BTC, and honestly I just came to the realization that I don't care whether or not it does.

Bitcoin will continue on like it always has no matter what you believe, and many people will continue to invest in it and make money whether you join in or not.

I have never owned any bitcoin, and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be buying any bitcoin either. I own other crypto and believe that while bitcoin isn't going anywhere and will appreciate during this next cycle and over the long haul, I have put my money in crypto that I hope and believe will perform even better.

No one is actually investing in BTC. It’s a modified Ponzi scheme that they’re going in aware that the only way they get more out than they put in is if others put money in too in large enough numbers over a short enough period of time.

Without more buys than sells, the price of BTC would stagnate and confidence would erode causing people to begin to take their profit or loss, while others get caught with their pants down.

Because there’s no actual supporting value, once whale holders have made a profit target they can move the market significantly downward causing all the minnows to panic sell. Why are they panic selling if it has some sort of intrinsic value? Because there is no intrinsic value. They are forever on edge of the volatility.

The volatility will never cease because those with large positions use the fact that Bitcoin has no value to their advantage. Oscillating taking gains both ways, picking off the weak positions making poor bets.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Ok

Stay on the sidelines then. Makes 0 difference to me either way. It's all good.

The exact statement all BTC holders make. You’re in it purely because you hope it pays off. Just like gamblers and lottery ticket buyers. Ignoring all the reasons it’s a poor decision because you don’t want to hear it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

The exact statement all BTC holders make. You’re in it purely because you hope it pays off. Just like gamblers and lottery ticket buyers. Ignoring all the reasons it’s a poor decision because you don’t want to hear it.

You bet.

Works for me

Except the part about me being a BTC holder, which I'm not

But I do have crypto though, my winning lottery ticket, if you will

[Azure]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

No one is actually investing in BTC. It’s a modified Ponzi scheme that they’re going in aware that the only way they get more out than they put in is if others put money in too in large enough numbers over a short enough period of time.

Without more buys than sells, the price of BTC would stagnate and confidence would erode causing people to begin to take their profit or loss, while others get caught with their pants down.

Because there’s no actual supporting value, once whale holders have made a profit target they can move the market significantly downward causing all the minnows to panic sell. Why are they panic selling if it has some sort of intrinsic value? Because there is no intrinsic value. They are forever on edge of the volatility.

The volatility will never cease because those with large positions use the fact that Bitcoin has no value to their advantage. Oscillating taking gains both ways, picking off the weak positions making poor bets.

Ummm, what? I know lots of people that invest in BTC, and have done so for the long-term so they can retire. If you're smart you invest what you can afford to lose.

I get the argument that Fuzz is making, but whatever you are babbling on about makes zero sense.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

The exact statement all BTC holders make. You’re in it purely because you hope it pays off. Just like gamblers and lottery ticket buyers. Ignoring all the reasons it’s a poor decision because you don’t want to hear it.

Why does someone buy stock? Buy investment properties, or for that matter invest in anything?

Because they 'hope it pays off.'

No #### people will buy BTC and hope it pays off. Just like I'd buy Apple stock and hope that the value of the keeps increasing so that when I retire I can sell it all and live comfortably.

Your arguments make literally no sense.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No thanks, I'm going to bow out. It's just not worth it. No amount of reason or evidence will change your opinion on BTC, and honestly I just came to the realization that I don't care whether or not it does.

Bitcoin will continue on like it always has no matter what you believe, and many people will continue to invest in it and make money whether you join in or not.

I have never owned any bitcoin, and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be buying any bitcoin either. I own other crypto and believe that while bitcoin isn't going anywhere and will appreciate during this next cycle and over the long haul, I have put my money in crypto that I hope and believe will perform even better.

Ok, well if not for Bitcoin, then what is it about the other coins you did buy that you believe will cause them to perform better than Bitcoin? What gives it value, other than hope? And i'm not trying to beat you up, just understand that either you have a good savvy reason, and if so, good for you. Some of them actually have utility. If not, "hope" is still a strategy(we all do it), but it's also good to be honest with yourself if that is all it is.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Azure

Ummm, what? I know lots of people that invest in BTC, and have done so for the long-term so they can retire. If you're smart you invest what you can afford to lose.

I get the argument that Fuzz is making, but whatever you are babbling on about makes zero sense.

Originally Posted by Azure

Why does someone buy stock? Buy investment properties, or for that matter invest in anything?

Because they 'hope it pays off.'

No #### people will buy BTC and hope it pays off. Just like I'd buy Apple stock and hope that the value of the keeps increasing so that when I retire I can sell it all and live comfortably.

Your arguments make literally no sense.

I was going to respond to the first post but then your last sentence in the second indicates it's not worth my trouble. I have pretty high confidence it's the reader.

[Jason14h]

Some of you need to leave North America and Western Europe and check out other countries financial and banking systems and currency controls if you want to see real world use cases and people actually using it as currency and for financial txns

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Some of you need to leave North America and Western Europe and check out other countries financial and banking systems and currency controls if you want to see real world use cases and people actually using it as currency and for financial txns

They also use mobile phone minutes as currency. Would you like to "invest" in some phone cards? PM me and we can make a trade for CAD.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Some of you need to leave North America and Western Europe and check out other countries financial and banking systems and currency controls if you want to see real world use cases and people actually using it as currency and for financial txns

Right, and there are alt coins that do this better than bitcoin, like you probably want to use a stable coin, or one with low transaction fees. Point still being, Bitcoin isn't really great at this, either.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Right, and there are alt coins that do this better than bitcoin, like you probably want to use a stable coin, or one with low transaction fees. Point still being, Bitcoin isn't really great at this, either.

Sure - sorry I assume people are using “Bitcoin” and “cryptocurrency “ interchangeable

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

They also use mobile phone minutes as currency. Would you like to "invest" in some phone cards? PM me and we can make a trade for CAD.

Well if phone minutes were in short supply then yes it would be . And yes people buy mass phone cards and re-sell for a profit in these countries.

And I can’t go online and buy something like I can with crypto . You do know there are crypto wallets with debit cards attached you can use at any store that is on the Visa or Mastercard Rails (and some of these wallets actually accept phone cards and gift cards as a deposit method as well )

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Sure - sorry I assume people are using “Bitcoin” and “cryptocurrency “ interchangeable

Why? They're not interchangeable. Because so many retort posts are "you guys are just hating on crypto dher dher dher cause you're jealous and depressed", when most of the views posted are on Bitcoin, not the entirety of crypto?

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well if phone minutes were in short supply then yes it would be . And yes people buy mass phone cards and re-sell for a profit .

You make some amazing arguments and analogies

Is Bitcoin in short supply? I'd imagine there are more Satoshis (2.1 quadrillion) than phone minutes in circulation. That provides roughly 270,000 BTC satoshis available for every person on earth.

To add in comparison for some fun. There is roughly only somewhere between 9-22 grams of gold bullion in existence per person on earth.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jammies? All time high this year avatar bet?

I'd rather bet real money, however I couldn't find any sites that weren't sketchy, illegal in Canada, or based on crypto. Does anyone know of any such service? I'm willing to put up $1000, however, it's not just that I don't necessarily trust you to pay up, but also, why would you trust me?

Originally Posted by dino7c

And you are trying to call me on past posts...hahaha

Yes, I was wrong in 2017 about the price of bitcoin peaking. I was also wrong in 2015 that Trump was a joke candidate and would never win the Republican nomination, never mind becoming President. I bought a few thousand in Blackberry stock a few years back when I thought they'd bottomed out, too. Does that make your predictions in 2021 right somehow?

It's ok to admit you were wrong. But you, dino, never do. It's easy - just say, "Yeah, in 2021, I made some predictions that didn't turn out. It's been 3 years, and medium-term crypto bets have been a loser." If you can't argue with success, it's hard to see how you can justify arguing with failure.

Lastly, I wasn't wrong about bitcoin being unsuited to daily commerce due to being both deflationary and horribly inefficient. I wasn't wrong that it would never become a legit alternative to fiat currency. (Look at Argentina, triple-digit monthly inflation, so people are using dollars, euros, and barter - not crypto). I wasn't wrong that web3 would never be more than niche. I wasn't wrong that it's a ****ty store of value because it's far too volatile, or to laugh at the guys predicting $1,000,000 bitcoin by 2023.

Nor am I wrong that crypto is, if not dead, moribund. The money that used to go to crypto start-ups is going to generative AI. Nobody cares anymore except the true believers and ransomware gangs. So much for the revolution.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Sorry What are you talking about ? If you short Coinbase and Coinbase loses all their Bitcoin and goes bankrupt and their stock goes to zero you get rich shorting it.

Also Bitcoin is very traceable . You can tell exactly where it has gone . Now identifying to owner of that wallet can be impossible - I’ll give you that

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Some of you need to leave North America and Western Europe and check out other countries financial and banking systems and currency controls if you want to see real world use cases and people actually using it as currency and for financial txns

The only use for B/C as a currency is if you are laundering/moving drug/black market money, it is perfect for that because you already assume a 50% loss through any laundering process so is still worth it, now there are a lot of black market users in the third world but no ordinary person anywhere is going to risk a 10 or 15% loss in normal use, let alone the vast risk of theft on top of the wild swings in price, a currency has to be reasonably stable over 2 or 3 month periods to be usable, you can't draw up a contract for delivering say 3000 buggy whips in 3 months if you dont actually know whether it's going to be up or down in value by 20 or 30%, most of the 3rd world uses US dollars for that very reason, they cant even risk the minimal comparative price fluctuations with an Argentinian Peso let alone crypto

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The only use for B/C as a currency is if you are laundering/moving drug/black market money, it is perfect for that because you already assume a 50% loss through any laundering process so is still worth it, now there are a lot of black market users in the third world but no ordinary person anywhere is going to risk a 10 or 15% loss in normal use, let alone the vast risk of theft on top of the wild swings in price, a currency has to be reasonably stable over 2 or 3 month periods to be usable, you can't draw up a contract for delivering say 3000 buggy whips in 3 months if you dont actually know whether it's going to be up or down in value by 20 or 30%, most of the 3rd world uses US dollars for that very reason, they cant even risk the minimal comparative price fluctuations with an Argentinian Peso let alone crypto

So have you shorted bitcoins miners and coinbase yet ? You seem pretty sure it’s garbage (as is your right - everyone can have an opinion - and you may be correct ) - go get rich vs constantly repeating the exact same post for a year - Bitcoin is only used by money launders and thief’s !

Or is it Homer Simpson’s syndrome “ Everybody is stupid but me “

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

So have you shorted bitcoins miners and coinbase yet ? You seem pretty sure it’s garbage (as is your right - everyone can have an opinion - and you may be correct ) - go get rich vs constantly repeating the exact same post for a year - Bitcoin is only used by money launders and thief’s !

Or is it Homer Simpson’s syndrome “ Everybody is stupid but me “

As a currency yes, as an investment well that's different, and I didn't say thieves use bitcoin just that the whole investment field is infested with grift, I mean is that in any doubt, you surely aren't denying that are you?

As to investments I'm a bit old for the ups and downs of Crypto, I went for weight loss drugs instead and have cleaned up this year as I cant see them dropping much until Ozempic's patent runs out