Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum

View Poll Results: What role do humans play in contributing to climate change?
Humans are the primary contributor to climate change 392 62.92%
Humans contribute to climate change, but not the main cause 163 26.16%
Not sure 37 5.94%
Climate change is a hoax 31 4.98%
Voters: 623. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-27-2023, 03:17 PM   #2981
Street Pharmacist
Franchise Player
 
Street Pharmacist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
I’d wager it’s more than a few hours per year. Don’t they practice?

I have kids and use my SUV to shuttle them around.

They aren’t using these super cars for errands. These guys are emitting carbon just going round and round a track and I doubt they are getting the 10-11 l/100km mileage I am.

If we’re gonna be serious about the discussion, how can we tell people like me that what I do is bad, but what Max or Lewis are doing is “negligible”.
Firstly, this isn't about ethics, it's about emissions. You aren't "bad" for driving an SUV.


Second, it's simple math. Transportation is about 14% of world emissions. There's about 1.5 billion light duty vehicles accounting for accounting for a little less than half of that, so let's say about 6% of total greenhouse gas emissions or 3.2 billion metric tons of CO2. On average in North America, a passenger car emits about 2.4 metric tons per vehicle. The entire F1 claims it produces 276,000 metric tons, and about three quarters is the set up and logistics.

Lastly, F1 is an entertainment product that produces 0.00007% of the world's CO2 emissions. Your SUV is about 1/100000th of that. At the end of the day, no one needs to feel guilty because that's how the system is set up and guilt is not a good force for change anyways. Regardless, we need to decrease emissions from a policy level because asking individuals to change their habits is a surefire way to not change anything. Why do you think the BP used a marketing firm in the earl 2000's to invent individual "carbon footprints", or beverage container manufacturer's funded reduce, reuse, recycle ads when government was looking at bottle deposits? If the problem is that of individuals, then we don't pass policy that puts ownership of change on the markets that need to change. It's the very same reason that shutting down Oilsands production isn't going to curb demand, only make it more expensive. At the end of the day these are systemic issues needing systemic change (meaning policy shifts) and not just guilt people into changing. Why should you sell your gas vehicle and buy and electric one just to be a better person? That's stupid

Last edited by Street Pharmacist; 05-27-2023 at 11:01 PM.
Street Pharmacist is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Street Pharmacist For This Useful Post:
Old 05-27-2023, 03:42 PM   #2982
Bill Bumface
My face is a bum!
 
Bill Bumface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist View Post
There are a few dozen F1 cars that run for a few hours every year. It's not going to be significant compared to 1 billion cars on the road that run a few hundred hours every year
I suspect by far the biggest source of emissions from F1 is moving all of the cars, equipment and people all over the globe throughout the season.
Bill Bumface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 03:46 PM   #2983
FlamesAddiction
Franchise Player
 
FlamesAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Meteorologists being threatened and harassed by conspiracy theorists.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/27/world...ntl/index.html

Quote:
In April, meteorologist Isabel Moreno wrote a tweet saying “rain skips Spain,” with an image of a band of rain stretching across Europe but missing Spain almost entirely. She was completely unprepared for the response.

“It was one of the hardest experiences in social media in my life,” said Moreno, who appears on the Spanish TV channel RTVE. “I received HUNDREDS of responses to an (apparently) inoffensive tweet,” she told CNN in an email.

Many accused her of covering up weather manipulation.

“Do not take us for idiots,” said one. “They dry us up, and you are the spokesperson for those who do it,” said another. And on, and on.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
FlamesAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FlamesAddiction For This Useful Post:
Old 05-27-2023, 03:57 PM   #2984
Street Pharmacist
Franchise Player
 
Street Pharmacist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bumface View Post
I suspect by far the biggest source of emissions from F1 is moving all of the cars, equipment and people all over the globe throughout the season.
Of their entire Scope 1, 2, 3 emissions, only 0.7% are from burning fuel in the cars themselves. According to F1's net zero plan, their current emissions are:
-45% logistics
-27% business travel
-19.3% facilities and factories
-7.3% Event operations
-0.7% Power unit emissions

https://corp.formula1.com/wp-content...ite-vFINAL.pdf
Street Pharmacist is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Street Pharmacist For This Useful Post:
Old 05-27-2023, 04:06 PM   #2985
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

F1 power units are the most efficient ICE hybrid that exists, by a long shot. They go through 100l per race, plus quality and practice, so 300l max x 20 cars x 23 races. That's 138 000 litres, plus pre season testing, so round it up to 200k. Pretty small potatoes. All the logistics are the worst part, but they are working towards net zero.


No idea on Nascar, probably way worse and should be cancelled and exploded.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 05-27-2023, 04:19 PM   #2986
Party Elephant
First Line Centre
 
Party Elephant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Canterbury, NZ
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist View Post
Firstly, this isn't about ethics, it's about emissions. You aren't "bad" for driving an SUV.


Second, it's simple math. Transportation is about 14% of world emissions. There's about 1.5 billion light duty vehicles accounting for accounting for a little less than half of that, so let's say about 6% of total greenhouse gas emissions or 3.2 billion metric tons of CO2. On average in North America, a passenger car emits about 2.4 million metric tons per vehicle. The entire F1 claims it produces 276,000 metric tons, and about three quarters is the set up and logistics.

Lastly, F1 is an entertainment product that produces 0.00007% of the world's CO2 emissions. Your SUV is about 1/100000th of that. At the end of the day, no one needs to feel guilty because that's how the system is set up and guilt is not a good force for change anyways. Regardless, we need to decrease emissions from a policy level because asking individuals to change their habits is a surefire way to not change anything. Why do you think the BP used a marketing firm in the earl 2000's to invent individual "carbon footprints", or beverage container manufacturer's funded reduce, reuse, recycle ads when government was looking at bottle deposits? If the problem is that of individuals, then we don't pass policy that puts ownership of change on the markets that need to change. It's the very same reason that shutting down Oilsands production isn't going to curb demand, only make it more expensive. At the end of the day these are systemic issues needing systemic change (meaning policy shifts) and not just guilt people into changing. Why should you sell your gas vehicle and buy and electric one just to be a better person? That's stupid
This is a very good post so I'm quoting it
Party Elephant is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Party Elephant For This Useful Post:
Old 05-27-2023, 05:14 PM   #2987
DoubleK
Franchise Player
 
DoubleK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
No idea on Nascar, probably way worse and should be cancelled and exploded.
NASCAR will be net zero by 2035.
__________________
It's only game. Why you heff to be mad?
DoubleK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 05:30 PM   #2988
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleK View Post
NASCAR will be net zero by 2035.
Bull.

I'd love to see how they spin that.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 05:47 PM   #2989
Street Pharmacist
Franchise Player
 
Street Pharmacist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Bull.



I'd love to see how they spin that.
They'll be giving net zero F&+#'s
Street Pharmacist is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Street Pharmacist For This Useful Post:
Old 05-27-2023, 08:42 PM   #2990
#-3
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist View Post
Firstly, this isn't about ethics, it's about emissions. You aren't "bad" for driving an SUV.


Second, it's simple math. Transportation is about 14% of world emissions. There's about 1.5 billion light duty vehicles accounting for accounting for a little less than half of that, so let's say about 6% of total greenhouse gas emissions or 3.2 billion metric tons of CO2. On average in North America, a passenger car emits about 2.4 million metric tons per vehicle. The entire F1 claims it produces 276,000 metric tons, and about three quarters is the set up and logistics.

Lastly, F1 is an entertainment product that produces 0.00007% of the world's CO2 emissions. Your SUV is about 1/100000th of that. At the end of the day, no one needs to feel guilty because that's how the system is set up and guilt is not a good force for change anyways. Regardless, we need to decrease emissions from a policy level because asking individuals to change their habits is a surefire way to not change anything. Why do you think the BP used a marketing firm in the earl 2000's to invent individual "carbon footprints", or beverage container manufacturer's funded reduce, reuse, recycle ads when government was looking at bottle deposits? If the problem is that of individuals, then we don't pass policy that puts ownership of change on the markets that need to change. It's the very same reason that shutting down Oilsands production isn't going to curb demand, only make it more expensive. At the end of the day these are systemic issues needing systemic change (meaning policy shifts) and not just guilt people into changing. Why should you sell your gas vehicle and buy and electric one just to be a better person? That's stupid
Great post, I will say in-regards to a problem that is nearing 8 billion people strong, any time you start to fine grain it down to any small group of individuals for any reason it becomes a rounding error, but it also doesn't mean we can ignore the rounding errors, it means we need to start aggregating them, and picking up any wins possible.

People should buy EVs, because it is part of the solution, and because we need to create the market that will allows us collectively to push expensive grid upgrades and re-charging infrastructure. But most of all people should buy 1 EV if they have a vehicle household and the ability to charge at home, because they are better vehicles that are easier to maintain and cheaper to operate.

And with all of that said I wouldn't feel guilty about the SUV, but I would be thinking forward to when you are ready to switch to an EV for all of the reasons above.
#-3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 09:29 PM   #2991
calgarygeologist
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
F1 power units are the most efficient ICE hybrid that exists, by a long shot. They go through 100l per race, plus quality and practice, so 300l max x 20 cars x 23 races. That's 138 000 litres, plus pre season testing, so round it up to 200k. Pretty small potatoes. All the logistics are the worst part, but they are working towards net zero.


No idea on Nascar, probably way worse and should be cancelled and exploded.
The numbers don't look that bad when presented that way but realistically that is still around 8mpg if I'm not mistaken which isn't very impressive.
calgarygeologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 10:03 PM   #2992
Matata
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Exp:
Default

anything can be net zero if you buy enough offsets
Matata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 10:42 PM   #2993
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleK View Post
NASCAR will be net zero by 2035.
Ya, hopefully they get there by ceasing to exist.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 10:44 PM   #2994
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
The numbers don't look that bad when presented that way but realistically that is still around 8mpg if I'm not mistaken which isn't very impressive.
Sure, if you overlook the acceleration and speeds that require overcoming massive drag. All from a 1.6 L engine.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2023, 11:04 PM   #2995
Street Pharmacist
Franchise Player
 
Street Pharmacist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata View Post
anything can be net zero if you buy enough offsets
Yup, and that's a problem. There's a very proven and effective solution to that, but I'm afraid you're not going to love it...


*Whispers "carbon tax...."
Street Pharmacist is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Street Pharmacist For This Useful Post:
Old 05-28-2023, 10:31 AM   #2996
DoubleK
Franchise Player
 
DoubleK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Ya, hopefully they get there by ceasing to exist.
We get it, you don't like NASCAR.

Some people do, like me.

You can stop posting about how much you hate it anytime now.
__________________
It's only game. Why you heff to be mad?
DoubleK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2023, 10:40 AM   #2997
calumniate
Franchise Player
 
calumniate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A small painted room
Exp:
Default

When i think of NASCAR I think of a car lot of fans towing their fifth wheels and campers to the site with f250s.
calumniate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2023, 11:24 AM   #2998
calgarygeologist
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calumniate View Post
When i think of NASCAR I think of a car lot of fans towing their fifth wheels and campers to the site with f250s.
The yachts and private jets that fans of F1 use are not that much different than the trucks and trailers at Nascar.
calgarygeologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2023, 02:11 PM   #2999
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
The yachts and private jets that fans of F1 use are not that much different than the trucks and trailers at Nascar.
Not really. They are actually much much worse.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 05-28-2023, 08:07 PM   #3000
DoubleK
Franchise Player
 
DoubleK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Not really. They are actually much much worse.
Guess you missed my post.
__________________
It's only game. Why you heff to be mad?
DoubleK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:59 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021