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Old 06-01-2022, 01:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Envitro View Post
I've been avoiding this thread like the plague for a few days, and probably for good reason.

I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Yep, lots of people are completely unaware that hundreds of thousands of Canadians participate in handgun and multi-gun sports safely every day throughout the country. It's the safest sport in the country, with hundreds of thousands of rounds discharged towards paper or steel targets without incident.
-snip-
Safest sport is probably pretty easy to prove false...

Without incident?
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Gunfire inside the National Armoury Range at the RCMP Depot in Regina ended up going through the exterior walls Wednesday afternoon, hitting two parked vehicles outside.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...gina-1.6354849
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The Department of Justice is conducting a safety review of a Dartmouth, N.S., gun range after a person was injured by a gunshot at the business on Saturday.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ange-1.5044714


Quote:
“Apparently he fumbled his gun,” Sloper said. “It slipped. You know, how often might you drop something? He tried to retrieve it and it went off. That just doesn’t happen.
https://cfjctoday.com/2017/06/13/unf...ing-community/


Except it did...
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:25 PM   #42
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Yeah, that's been suggested before by people who know nothing about firearms. They call that "Central Storage". We call it "Merry Christmas Mr. Criminal".

You seem to forget that you'd have to then have every single gun club in Canada be fortified like Ft. Knox with militarized guards with 24 hour security.
You're giving the criminals basically a free pass to get hundreds and thousands of "free guns". Most clubs are in rural areas because of NIMBY'sm to begin with.
You don't want anything stored there, they barely have power or cell service.
So you either make the ranges meet security requirements, or they close.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:28 PM   #43
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Is their not technology these days to transition the sport aspect into using non-lethal tools? Lasers or something? Why does it need to be capable of killing to be used in the sport? Maybe time to innovate a bit if you want it to survive.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:40 PM   #44
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It might have to be garbage gun compared to what you buy now and I'm sure that sucks.

But there are a bunch of stuff out there you can't buy because its dangerous no matter how good of an owner you are. My neighbour might be the greatest long range missile owner ever - but I still don't want him to have it. If they restrict the types of guns you can buy - and you can still hunt adequately with what they let you buy - I'm not going to shed a tear for you. I understand your annoyances, but you won't win me to your side.
Thanks Pete. A lot of what you say is how I feel about dogs. My mother and I were attacked by a dog when I was little. To some, my fear may seem irrational, but that is how I feel. I'm not saying dogs are as dangerous as guns (I just wished my neighbours didn't have one lol, it barks all the time) nor am I trying to win anyone to my side. What I am trying to do is show that the government is wasting tax dollars that could be put to far better use, particularly youth programs to prevent kids joining gangs etc. and misleading the public. When the Prime Minister makes statements like you don't need an AR15 to take down a deer, the masses are going to think people are hunting in Canada with AR15s which is simply not true.
The language they have been using has done a great job of causing fear. Assault 'Style' firearms, Designed to kill the most people in the shortest time etc ignoring Canadian regulations and restrictions that prevent most of what they claim. It's disheartening to see so many celebrate smoke and mirrors legislation.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:48 PM   #45
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I'd be OK with hand guns still being "own able" if the condition was they never left the gun range.
I've had one gun stolen.
I had it in storage at the range, so that's a hard pass for me. Harder to steal if they don't know where they are.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:54 PM   #46
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I've had one gun stolen.
I had it in storage at the range, so that's a hard pass for me. Harder to steal if they don't know where they are.
Even harder if they don't exist.


Your anecdote just showed how a legally owned gun can now be used for crime. If you hadn't been able to buy it, that wouldn't be an issue. You are basically advocating for what's known as security through obscurity, which is not a solution.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:02 PM   #47
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So does anyone actually think these new regulations are anything other than a big political show to make it seem like they're doing something?

I'm all for stringent regulations, background checks, required training courses, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc......but who are we kidding? Most guns being used for crime are being smuggled in across the border. This is all much to do about nothing.

Fix the smuggling problem first.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:09 PM   #48
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I just don't understand how people can be ok with government (police etc) and criminals all having whatever guns they desire but law abiding, vetted citizens are deemed too much of a risk. It's baffling.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:10 PM   #49
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So does anyone actually think these new regulations are anything other than a big political show to make it seem like they're doing something?

I'm all for stringent regulations, background checks, required training courses, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc......but who are we kidding? Most guns being used for crime are being smuggled in across the border. This is all much to do about nothing.

Fix the smuggling problem first.
What would you like them to do beyond this?

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Fighting gun smuggling and trafficking by increasing criminal penalties, providing more tools for law enforcement to investigate firearms crimes, and strengthening border security measures.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:13 PM   #50
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I just don't understand how people can be ok with government (police etc) and criminals all having whatever guns they desire but law abiding, vetted citizens are deemed too much of a risk. It's baffling.
Criminals shouldn't have guns - I agree and its illegal so evidently the government agrees to.

The other part - its not 1850 anymore - the government and the police have everyone outgunned by such a wild margin that me having a gun accomplishes nothing except ensures my death.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:15 PM   #51
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I want them to stop with the political smoke show to try and gain voter points, and instead roll out a targeted plan to stop the smuggling which happens to be the primary source of firearms being used to commit gun crime in Canada.

This problem has been going on forever and they have done nothing about it.

I hope you don't actually think this is anything more than political games.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:15 PM   #52
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What would you like them to do beyond this?
That's where they should have started. 2 years ago they banned 1500 models of sporting rifles, have spent millions of dollars and not a single banned firearm has been collected and gun violence has continued to rise. Proving they were going in the wrong direction and now they double down.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:19 PM   #53
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I want them to stop with the political smoke show to try and gain voter points, and instead roll out a targeted plan to stop the smuggling which happens to be the primary source of firearms being used to commit gun crime in Canada.

This problem has been going on forever and they have done nothing about it.

I hope you don't actually think this is anything more than political games.
Sounds a lot like this is what you wanted:

Quote:
Fighting gun smuggling and trafficking by increasing criminal penalties, providing more tools for law enforcement to investigate firearms crimes, and strengthening border security measures.
Firebot made the mistake of posting before this came down and when they covered exactly what he said he wanted against smuggling - he couldn't complain.

Explain what you want in this targeted plan? Let's get some details so we have something real we can discuss instead of unspecific language.

(and yes - I think we all agree this is political theatre, like everything else in politics)
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:24 PM   #54
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I just don't understand how people can be ok with government (police etc) and criminals all having whatever guns they desire but law abiding, vetted citizens are deemed too much of a risk. It's baffling.

Well a legal owner here just recalled a story that their gun was stolen from a range; a few years back a gun store was cleaned out in a robbery; a police officer left his guns in his car and had it stolen. It seems like a lot of legally obtained weapons are easily finding their way into criminals hands. If gun owners can’t seem to prevent their own guns from getting lost, maybe there shouldn’t be so many out there in circulation.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:30 PM   #55
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Well a legal owner here just recalled a story that their gun was stolen from a range; a few years back a gun store was cleaned out in a robbery; a police officer left his guns in his car and had it stolen. It seems like a lot of legally obtained weapons are easily finding their way into criminals hands. If gun owners can’t seem to prevent their own guns from getting lost, maybe there shouldn’t be so many out there in circulation.
A lot? Or just a very small number of anecdotes and one-off occurrences.

Really, how many legal guns have been stolen and then used to kill people in this country? I'm guessing that number is miniscule and a complete misdirect to the real problem.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:39 PM   #56
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The Olympic Programme of Shooting Sport includes 15 total events of three disciplines: Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun. Olympians compete in six men events, six women events and three mixed team events.
https://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/...pic_games.ashx

There are also Multigun (or 3 gun) and Service rifle matches that use modern sporting rifles (assault rifles have been banned in Canada for a very long time)
I read this as "minigun" which conjures up images of how awesome it would be to blast away targets using a minigun on the range

Also "minigun" seems like an obvious oxymoron

Anyways carry on

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Old 06-01-2022, 02:41 PM   #57
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A lot? Or just a very small number of anecdotes and one-off occurrences.

Really, how many legal guns have been stolen and then used to kill people in this country? I'm guessing that number is miniscule and a complete misdirect to the real problem.
No doubt its minimal in comparison.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:46 PM   #58
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Sounds a lot like this is what you wanted:

Firebot made the mistake of posting before this came down and when they covered exactly what he said he wanted against smuggling - he couldn't complain.

Explain what you want in this targeted plan? Let's get some details so we have something real we can discuss instead of unspecific language.

(and yes - I think we all agree this is political theatre, like everything else in politics)
Quote:
There is a measure to increase the maximum penalty for gun smuggling and gun trafficking from 10 years to 14 years, which is a good thing, but this same government is lowering sentences for these same offences in another bill. In fact, they are scrapping the mandatory minimum for a number of serious gun crimes in Bill C-5.

Currently, importing a gun illegally carries with it a mandatory minimum of three years on the first offence and a five-year minimum on the second offence. The Trudeau Liberals are scrapping that along with mandatory minimums on using a firearm in commission of a crime, possessing a restricted or prohibited weapon, possession of loaded handgun, possession of weapon obtained through crime, weapons trafficking and using a gun to commit robbery or extortion.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...rget-gun-crime

As usual, a whole bunch of political smoke and mirrors, but little in actual real word substance to fight the actual problem.

Banning the sale of hand guns is just feeding the 'oh rah rah we so tough on guns' sentiment, which of course is perfectly time to take advantage of a terrible tragedy, and its sad that people are actually falling for it.

The Trudeau Liberals have a history of gun legislation that has actually done nothing to reduce the smuggling.

And to be clear, legal firearm owners selling their handguns are not the problem here. Gun smuggling is, but somehow the legal firearm owners are again the target here, and the gun smuggling is getting a big ol' fat slap on the wrist.

Classic Trudeau Liberal stupidity. Amazing that we still have this clown in power.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:46 PM   #59
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Yeah, I figured you'd do that...

First one was an RCMP incident at their Academy, doesn't count. Most cops don't get their PAL/RPAL anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. IE They're not licensed.

The second one is a public range where it's not clear if the incident was due to a licensed individual or an "unlicensed" renter. Either way, it was an accident.

Third one was during a competition, and it's the only incident of it's type in the living memory of anyone that I've ever competed with. More or less summarized, in the heat of competition, this particular individual broke a well established safety rule, a rule that's there to prevent incidents like this, and he unfortunately paid the ultimate price for his mistake.

So to my point, 1 incident at a competition, more or less ever, doesn't prove or disprove your point. It merely illustrates that 1 accident happened at a shooting competition (which is what I was trying to say to begin with), contrasted with the fact that a competition event at pretty much every single weekend for 9 months of the year in every gun club in the country (1,245 to be exact) makes this number so infinitesimally small that it wouldn't statistically register as a number.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:48 PM   #60
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No doubt its minimal in comparison.
And to be clear, accidental discharges, theft, etc.....can all be addressed via better training & education around firearms.

Why is not mandatory to train gun safety in school?

I had that conversation with an anti-gun friend lately, and he thought I was crazy. I think all kids should know how to safety and properly use the commonly available firearms, including how they should be stored.

But hey, that would be breeding more pro-gun sentiment, right? And we can't have that.
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