06-08-2019, 02:30 PM
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#81
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube
There's a pretty significant value difference between a 40 goal/60 point guy and a 20 goal/60 point guy.
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I couldn't agree more. Your problem is that Skinner is neither of these. In fact, he's closer to the latter than the former in most years. If you want to call him a 30/30 guy, fine - in that case, go ahead and pay him like Evander Kane.
Regardless, he's being paid a couple million too much for a few years too long, and this deal should not have been signed.
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06-08-2019, 03:09 PM
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#82
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Franchise Player
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Evander Kane has never scored 40 goals -- prior to signing that contract he'd only scored 30 goals (on the nose) once, and only cracked 50 points twice.
Skinner has scored 30 goals four times (31, 33, 37, 40), 60 points three times (with two of those big seasons being in his last three), and is also not a notorious negative presence in the locker room and community. Kane is clearly a big step down from Skinner.
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06-08-2019, 04:36 PM
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#83
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Absolutely insane term and dollars for Skinner. Not sure how the Sabres could agree on this.
$7M tops...
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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06-08-2019, 05:07 PM
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#84
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamca
Absolutely insane term and dollars for Skinner. Not sure how the Sabres could agree on this.
$7M tops...
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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This is why I keep saying that he must have had some leverage and had them over a barrel or something because he didnt even take a haircut on AAV for the full NMC or going to full term and hes still way overpaid.
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The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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06-08-2019, 06:33 PM
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#85
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
This is why I keep saying that he must have had some leverage and had them over a barrel or something because he didnt even take a haircut on AAV for the full NMC or going to full term and hes still way overpaid.
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Yes, its called UFA . Acquisition cost to replace him has to be considered and /or included in their decision to sign him for what they paid.
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06-08-2019, 08:49 PM
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#86
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
This kind of reminds me of the Vanek scenario.
Didnt they panic-pay Vanek too and that turned into a disaster because his production fell off a cliff?
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Vanek was a matched RFA offer sheet, so they have Kevin Lowe to blame for that one.
In hindsight, they should have taken the 4 first round picks and ended up with Eberle, Paajarvi, Hall, and Nugent-Hopkins (or roughly equivalent players they may have chosen with Edmonton's picks).
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06-08-2019, 11:58 PM
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#87
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube
Evander Kane has never scored 40 goals -- prior to signing that contract he'd only scored 30 goals (on the nose) once, and only cracked 50 points twice.
Skinner has scored 30 goals four times (31, 33, 37, 40), 60 points three times (with two of those big seasons being in his last three), and is also not a notorious negative presence in the locker room and community. Kane is clearly a big step down from Skinner.
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Kane bring other elements to the game as well.
Plus, his contract is questionable as well. Skinner's is definitely overpayment.
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06-09-2019, 12:34 AM
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#88
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sweden
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Holy ####.
Jeff Skinner got 9 million dollars per year?
Buffalo Fans in full defence mode.
__________________
Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman, then always be Batman.
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06-09-2019, 07:33 AM
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#89
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Syracuse, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Did he help bury Jimmy Hoffa or something?
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Not Hoffa. Ville Leino.
__________________
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs;
it's Don't Tread On Me.
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06-09-2019, 07:54 AM
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#90
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Regina
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Makes me appreciate the deals that Johnny and Monahan signed more and more every year
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06-09-2019, 08:26 AM
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#91
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
A #### of a lot less. Sam Reinhart can't carry Jeff Skinner's jock at this point, regardless of point production. Just like Matthew Tkachuk can't compare to Skinner, Reinhart should not be pressing that case as well. Skinner is a much better player all around and has the advantage of UFA status to work with. Neither Tkachuk nor Reinhart have that advantage, nor the track record, to rely upon when it comes to establishing their worth.
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Huh? Tkachuk is 10X a better player than Skinner in almost every way, Skinner gets true #1 centers like Aho or Eichel to play with, Matthew got Backlund who's barely a #2 center and Matt still crushed Skinner in scoring.
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06-09-2019, 08:42 AM
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#92
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlh2640
Makes me appreciate the deals that Johnny and Monahan signed more and more every year
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Yes, but that was more of a timing thing than shrewd GM'ing. If they had signed a year later it would have been much more. I mean Mackinnon in my eyes is a top 3 player in the world. He makes less than Johnny and Monahan.
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06-09-2019, 09:11 AM
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#93
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario
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For this to make a lick of sense, I have to think that Buffalo and Skinner's camp consider his 63 point plateau as a sign of potential lost more than his ceiling. Whether they're right or not... we'll see.
But I haven't thought of any Skinner season as 'his ceiling' quite yet, and last year looked to be more of a return to form than anything else. 2010-11 was a great rookie year, and last year we saw him get opportunities that seemed to be limited for him in Carolina. In a way, both times he's started a new campaign it's started with 63 points.
His time in Carolina was... weird. I don't know what it was that led him to be losing opportunities and ultimately trickle down the lineup - but in Buffalo we saw that he really could be the player people hoped he'd be in Carolina.
But is he a leader? Does his 200' game warrant a big contract? Do they think he's an 80ish pt player? All that can make sense to me is that they think of him as the $9M player that this contract deserves - and they've made an 8-year full NMC bet on him earning it.
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06-09-2019, 09:51 AM
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#94
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Grew up in Calgary now living in USA
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Contracts like these drive the rates up across the league, and make it harder to sign players within a team structure. Agents will want to Skinner's contract as a comparable. I think Brad negotiations should be used as a model to learn how to get your contracts to fit within a team structure. Skinners contract hurts the league. I'm not sure why some Buffalo fans are defending it.
Last edited by DazzlinDino; 06-09-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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06-09-2019, 10:46 AM
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#95
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DazzlinDino
Contracts like these drive the rates up across the league, and make it harder to sign players within a team structure. Agents will want to Skinner's contract as a comparable. I think Brad negotiations should be used as a model to learn how to get your contracts to fit within a team structure. Skinners contract hurts the league. I'm not sure why some Buffalo fans are defending it.
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Skinner’s or any other UFA contract cannot be used as a comparable to any RFA contract, literally and figuratively. A RFA going to arbitration cannot use a UFA contract as a comparable
The closer a team gets to losing an currently owned but prospective UFA player, the more likely a premium will have to be paid by the team holding his rights.
Factor in the said asset (player) replacement cost , should the UFA walk, and the additional salary and premium to keep him starts to make sense.
Moral of the story is get core player’s second and / or third contracts heading towards UFA done as early as possible and reduce team expense and exposure. The longer you wait, the more expensive it gets for the team to retain the player and/or replace him.
Treliving has done an excellent job of getting potential UFA core Flames players under contract early and to very reasonable terms and amounts.
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06-09-2019, 10:50 AM
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#96
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbit
Skinner’s or any other UFA contract cannot be used as a comparable to any RFA contract, literally and figuratively. A RFA going to arbitration cannot use a UFA contract as a comparable
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Well yah but how many guys negotiating these contracts go to arbitration?
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06-09-2019, 10:52 AM
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#97
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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I know one thing....this deal makes Matt Duchene very happy.
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06-09-2019, 11:00 AM
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#98
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bay Area
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What happened to Friedman’s report a couple years ago about skinner, knows the family, and made clear that head injuries were so bad he likely doesn’t have a long career and was considering retirement? Made it sound like he was one body check away from retirement?
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"Fun must be always!" - Tomas Hertl
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06-09-2019, 11:07 AM
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#99
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Franchise Player
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The fact that Buffalo didn't move Jeff Skinner at the deadline makes me think the Sabres have been working on this hard since then. Makes me wonder what Skinner's original ask was
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06-09-2019, 11:11 AM
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#100
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustygoon
What happened to Friedman’s report a couple years ago about skinner, knows the family, and made clear that head injuries were so bad he likely doesn’t have a long career and was considering retirement? Made it sound like he was one body check away from retirement?
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Maybe they're hoping to get what they can out of him and figure when the contract gets too bad that IR and Insurance will eat the difference?
That'd be a risky play.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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