2018-19 NBA and Raptors thread

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Yeah an over and back and offensive foul really showed their clutchness

That seriously never happens in the final minute in the NBA. Warriors did everything to lose last night and the Raps told them to hold their beer.

[Manhattanboy]

Not being a hoops fan at all I have found these semis and finals interesting on a number of levels:

1. As I have no investment as a fan the outcome is irrelevant. In my mind the Raptors are just another Toronto sports franchise. They are in no way Canada's team. The "We the North" mantra is a brilliant marketing tool to sell more jerseys. But I view them the same way as I do the Leafs. If they win its great for Toronto, but I find it a joke that the media and others consider this some sort of national achievement akin to Olympic gold.

2. The presser by the Warriors head of operations was something else. Crying? Are you kidding me? Seems an injury like that was entirely predictable. And its not like he died. He will recover. Big deal. And as far as the fans cheering his injury, many applauded KD as he left the floor. The players are a bit of an odd bunch compared to hockey. That they would show that kind of love and try to silence their own crowd? Maybe during the season. But in the finals where everything is on the line? You stay focused. Weird display.

3. Why did their coach call a time out when the Warriors seemed totally exhausted. Even as a total non-fan I didn't get it. My buddy who is a huge fan couldn't believe it. That could have been the series right there.

4. Basketball must be a blast to play because its just not that entertaining as a spectator sport. Even playoff games. Give me hockey any day of the week.

[Strange Brew]

Jalen Rose with a comment on the KD injury (he might have been quoting something). To the effect, lots of people bring flowers to your funeral but did they bring you soup when you’re sick.

Lots of people feeling bad about KD’s injury but hard to look at what happened and conclude he shouldn’t have been playing. Jalen saying his workout prior did not go well at all.

[Blaster86]

So as someone who doesn't understand basketball, is this as dire for the Raptors as the talking heads are making it out to be now?


Are the Warriors pretty much set on the path to reversing the meme? I am trying to get heads or tails of whats happening, but the most common voices I can find are Stephen A and Skip Bayless who I know are idiots.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The timeout timing was odd, until you saw the shot of Kawhi on the sidelines barely able to catch his breath. He had just scored 10 straight points and could barely stand, and Nurse clearly saw that. He was totally gassed.

The timeout disrupted the flow, but at the same time, the Raptors let 3 straight 3's go in from great passing plays while not scoring the other way. GS are a dynasty, and still remain the defending champions for a reason. They miss one of those shots, and the game is pretty much over. The vets from GS came through in the clutch.

Another factor: you get only two timeouts per side in the last 3 minutes, so if Nurse wanted to buy his players some extra rest, he needed to do it right then rather than waiting another possession, and he couldn't count on the Warriors to call one since they were already down to 2. So yeah, I think it was a decent decision to call a timeout when he did; it's consistent with the way he's used them all year, occasionally calling a time-out when his team has momentum in order to make sure they're focusing on the right details.

Now, not calling one before that last play, I don't agree with. I think they could have gotten a better shot out of an ATO play. With the Warriors taking Cousins out, maybe put both Ibaka and Gasol in, try and get something at the rim with a couple seconds left on the clock so there's a chance at a putback.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

So as someone who doesn't understand basketball, is this as dire for the Raptors as the talking heads are making it out to be now?


Are the Warriors pretty much set on the path to reversing the meme? I am trying to get heads or tails of whats happening, but the most common voices I can find are Stephen A and Skip Bayless who I know are idiots.

The Raptors are playing well and the Warriors are missing two key guys. It is not dire at all.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by octothorp

With the Warriors taking Cousins out, maybe put both Ibaka and Gasol in, try and get something at the rim with a couple seconds left on the clock so there's a chance at a putback.

This didn't even occur to me at the time but now that you've said it, yes. A thousand times yes.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

So as someone who doesn't understand basketball, is this as dire for the Raptors as the talking heads are making it out to be now?


Are the Warriors pretty much set on the path to reversing the meme? I am trying to get heads or tails of whats happening, but the most common voices I can find are Stephen A and Skip Bayless who I know are idiots.

The Raptors have won by 9, 13, and 14 points this series.

They've lost by 5 and 1.

In both losses, they shot 26.5% from 3. In three wins, they shot 34.1.

That's basically the difference. Golden State isn't healthy enough, and as good as they are, they aren't going to shoot 47.7% as a team from 3 for three straight games.

If the Raptors keep doing what they're doing and two or three extra shots go in, they're the champs.

Raptors in 6.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1138548385781358593

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Not being a hoops fan at all I have found these semis and finals interesting on a number of levels:

1. As I have no investment as a fan the outcome is irrelevant. In my mind the Raptors are just another Toronto sports franchise. They are in no way Canada's team. The "We the North" mantra is a brilliant marketing tool to sell more jerseys. But I view them the same way as I do the Leafs. If they win its great for Toronto, but I find it a joke that the media and others consider this some sort of national achievement akin to Olympic gold.

2. The presser by the Warriors head of operations was something else. Crying? Are you kidding me? Seems an injury like that was entirely predictable. And its not like he died. He will recover. Big deal. And as far as the fans cheering his injury, many applauded KD as he left the floor. The players are a bit of an odd bunch compared to hockey. That they would show that kind of love and try to silence their own crowd? Maybe during the season. But in the finals where everything is on the line? You stay focused. Weird display.

3. Why did their coach call a time out when the Warriors seemed totally exhausted. Even as a total non-fan I didn't get it. My buddy who is a huge fan couldn't believe it. That could have been the series right there.

4. Basketball must be a blast to play because its just not that entertaining as a spectator sport. Even playoff games. Give me hockey any day of the week.

I was thinking the same thing last night..

When you think about it, the odds of getting drafted by an NBA team are 2% if the player is already playing NCAA D1 ball. Odds of getting drafted from high school are .03 percent from what I can tell on google, and that seems high.

Franchise level players play 32-38 minutes per game and core level play 30-35 minutes per game. If the average team dresses 12 players and a couple of players are on the bench for most of the game, it stands to reason that opposing players get more exposure to one another during their 82 games than say.. hockey players with 23 guys dressed who may or may not play opposing shifts or equal ice time.

While the NHL (MLB, NFL etc) are definitely an elite group of athletes, NBA athletes are a smaller group of elite athletes and maybe they are more tightly knit or even have more respect for one another? Just a thought...

[edslunch]

The Warriors with Durant were amazing. The Raptors including Leonard didn’t play (way too many turnovers) or shoot very well, yet still came within a bucket.

This should still be the Raptors’ series.

[greyshep]

Wonder if they'll do another jurassic park viewing at East village. It seemed fairly well attended and the atmosphere was fun. Eliminate some of the technical issues and it could be great.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The big concern for a Warriors comeback is the Raps are a streaky shooting team, so if they just suddenly go cold like they did for the entire Philly series and the first two games of the Bucks series then they are in trouble. But even then they've played great defensively this series so if they bring the intensity on that end they can still win even shooting poorly. But the long time NBA fan in me worries about Game 6 possibly turning into a 2002 WCF Game 6 situation. This has been a poorly rated series, but a Sunday night Game 7 would be a huge ratings draw, so there's incentive for that kind of crap to occur if it needs to.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I feel like it's better for the health of the league overall to have a team like the Raptors win. Right now, I'd have to think that 28 team fan bases in the league feel like they have no chance of winning a title ever as long as the Warriors are who they are. I can't think that's good for the league.

Heck, Raptors fans felt like they had no chance as recently as 10 days ago and they're in the finals!

So short term, maybe it makes sense to get that Game 7 ratings pull but long term maybe the Raptors winning is better for the NBA. That's if you believe the conspiracy theories (when it comes to 2002 WCF Game 6, I certainly do).

[Calgary14]

Interesting article on BNN about Durant's injury; I guess he could have just lost up to $160M assuming no other team takes a chance on him. I didn't know that type of injury was so difficult to recover from.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/durant-s...lion-1.1271547

[Superfraggle]

Found this interesting:
https://www.tsn.ca/nba-says-marc-gas...me-5-1.1320764

The NBA has actually come out and said that the Raptors should have had two free throws in the last minute of the game.

Surprised that the league would actually come out and say something when it's too late and it didn't seem like there was a tonne of media focus on the play (at least that I saw).

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

Interesting article on BNN about Durant's injury; I guess he could have just lost up to $160M assuming no other team takes a chance on him. I didn't know that type of injury was so difficult to recover from.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/durant-s...lion-1.1271547

That's not exactly right, GSW can offer him $220 over 5 years, everyone else can offer him $160 over 4. If he's still anywhere close his prime at the end of that 4 years he'd still get $40+ for the 5th year, so it would only cost him $20 million in total.

Or he can opt for the player option next year, have GSW pay for his rehab, and then still be in the same situation next year. One challenge will be that he'll need to make a decision on opting out before he's had a chance to meet with teams in free agency. I don't think he opts in, because right now few teams have cap space in 2020, where-as right now he'll get his pick of a lot of teams who would max him.

I think a team like the Knicks (or Clippers) would still offer him a max contract anyway. They can afford to burn a whole year helping him rehab, and it takes pressure off them to contend next year, which, for the Knicks, was going to be hard even with Durant. On the other hand, it does put a wrench in the master-plan of signing two max free agents... Is Irving okay with be the only star along with a lot of crap in New York for a year while waiting for Durant to get better?

A team like the Lakers, on the other hand... they want to put together a winner around LeBron right now. Signing Durant but then not playing him until the 2020-21 season burns another year of LeBron contention... they need to be a contender next year. Unless they bring in another star as well, which would probably need to be via trade (like Davis).

I'm not sure what Golden State wants to do. Maxing Durant, Klay, and Curry puts them waaaaay into the luxury tax for the foreseeable future, while making it really tough for them to put together a decent support cast around those guys. Keeping the big 5 (assuming maxes for Thompson and Durant) already runs you around $80 million in tax this year (and that's not counting Looney... Keep him for the $15 million or so he could probably get on the open market, and you're at $160 million in tax; I think that's too rich for even their blood). And then Draymond's up for a new contract next year and may get max or near max offers on the free market.

Another option that hasn't been talked about much is that another team could acquire Durant in a sign-and-trade; that would allow a team to pay Durant the max (the full $220 million max he could get from the Warriors), and allow the Warriors to get some much-needed depth assets back. The caveat is that the team that acquires him cannot go over the tax threshold next year, which is less of a problem if that team isn't worried about contending next year anyway.

[Calgary14]

^All of that makes sense, but just not sure if any team would pay max dollars for a player that a) is likely taking next year off to rehab and b) might not be 100% the year he returns, or even the following years

Could Durant still command top dollar from teams now that he's facing long term rehab? I was under the impression teams may lower what they'd previously offer due to the risk.

Lakers likely won't be interested as you mentioned since they need/want a contender right now, but Knicks for sure would be in the running. And that assumes Durant is considering leaving, he may opt to stay in Golden State since Klay and Curry both seem committed to staying long term

Would GS still have to pay the luxury tax if Durant stays but is out for a year?

Draymond hasn't been that great in the finals IMO and that may lower his value on the market

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

^All of that makes sense, but just not sure if any team would pay max dollars for a player that a) is likely taking next year off to rehab and b) might not be 100% the year he returns, or even the following years

Could Durant still command top dollar from teams now that he's facing long term rehab? I was under the impression teams may lower what they'd previously offer due to the risk.

Lakers likely won't be interested as you mentioned since they need/want a contender right now, but Knicks for sure would be in the running. And that assumes Durant is considering leaving, he may opt to stay in Golden State since Klay and Curry both seem committed to staying long term

Would GS still have to pay the luxury tax if Durant stays but is out for a year?

Draymond hasn't been that great in the finals IMO and that may lower his value on the market

Maybe elite markets where players want to go but like Atlanta, for example, would be insane not to offer Durant the max.

[octothorp]

I think a lot of teams would still be willing to pay Durant max even if they assume he only comes back at 60% of his health in a worst-case. Guys like Tobias Harris and Khris Middleton are borderline max players in the current market; Otto Porter Jr. even has a max contract! Getting Durant who might come back at anywhere between 60% to 90% health, for $10 million more cost as one of those guys is a good risk to take, even when factoring in that you're paying for an extra year where he won't step on the court. Wealthy teams (like the Knicks) will pay any amount if it takes them from being a non-championship contender to contender, which is what Durant potentially provides.

The NBA cap is kinda flawed in that there are far more max salaries available than what you would consider as max-talent players (and the cap system weirdly incentivizes overpaying your own mediocre free agents), so the top level max players are paid way less than their value (LeBron, Giannis, Davis, etc), and then there's some max guys who are paid around their value (Westbrook, Horford, Jokic, etc.) and then some max guys who are vastly overpaid on their max (Porter Jr., Whiteside, etc.).

Yes, Golden State does need to pay Durant's salary plus any resulting tax if he stays. They likely have insurance that partially covers it. But Durant's contract pushes them further into the tax and drives up the cost of every other contract on their roster.
If he's shut down for the whole year, (and declare this before or early in the year) they also get an exception to sign a free agent upto the MLE, which is around $9 million. But they still need to pay that salary plus tax and everything on that contract, and it further contributes to the tax level on other salaries.
As far as next year goes I don't think they mind paying for one year of Durant's rehab, especially since it helps them not look like the bad guys here. But they'd probably prefer that he signs elsewhere, or even better, the sign-and-trade scenario I mentioned before.