Greg Nemisz

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

I've heard it mentioned once that power forwards develop a lot slower than other positions, besides maybe defencemen.

Is Neimez going to be a David Moss, or his upside higher than that? Are we looking at a future 20 goal guy, or a 30+?

Neimez upside is much higher than Moss IMO.

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Something else for people to consider.

Nemisz (June, 1990) is 15 months younger than Backlund (March, 1989).

15 months meaning a lot at this age, the question would be, how much more of an impact player would Nemisz be compared to Backlund after another year of WHL hockey? The answer to which we will never know because I would think he is in the AHL next season instead??

Claeren.

Just wanted to clarify that Nemisz plays in the OHL, and turning just 19 in June, he will be in the O again next season. I am excited to see him in Flames silks eventually. Hopefully he continues to progress.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Isn't Nemisz ineligible for the AHL next season? I thought you had to be either 20+ years old or had to have played 4 full seasons in major junior in order to play in the AHL.

Holy, you are right! What was I thinking!? He is already the Alternate Captain too so it seems the team will be his to lead next year? Along with Hall?

That also kind of furthers my point though, Nemisz is a year behind Backlund and yet is still putting up big numbers.



Claeren.

[North East Goon]

Personally I am not impressed by either Nemisz or Wahl, but I have not seen them enough to make a real educated decision on them.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Claeren

I was just looking at Ladd's profile and was shocked to see he was drafted 4th overall! Wow, way higher than I would have guessed.

Then you look at the draft that year (still a bit early granted, but not by much) and see how few really good players it produced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NHL_Entry_Draft

Ovechkin, Malkin, Green and Streit are big exceptions, and Radulov if he had stuck it out, but it drops off fast after that. Cam Barker went 3rd, and there a bunch of other names in the first round that are becoming regular career NHLers, but the biggest point to me is that Calgary did pretty well considering how lean it is: Boyd, Prust and Pardy are absolute steals at their draft positions. Chucko is certainly no worse a pick than many teams made around that spot (only Mike Green really stands out as a missed opportunity), and even the Spratt's and Cracknall's of the world have been useful depth picks considering how late they were picked.


Nemisz certainly compares well with Ladd though, and he has now grown taller, bigger and has more WHL experience/production than Ladd ever had (Ladd dropped off Giants first year in WHL, then played in BCHL and only managed 2 senior seasons in WHL). Shall be interesting to see if he can pull it together at the pro level.... fingers crossed!



Claeren.

As much as I hate the guy, you kinda missed Johan Franzen in your list of impact players that were in that draft - one draft position below Dustin Boyd.

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Knalus

As much as I hate the guy, you kinda missed Johan Franzen in your list of impact players that were in that draft - one draft position below Dustin Boyd.

David Krejci too. Pretty good year for him this year, unless we're not counting breakout players.

EDIT: Also Mark Streit in the 9th round!

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Knalus

As much as I hate the guy, you kinda missed Johan Franzen in your list of impact players that were in that draft - one draft position below Dustin Boyd.

Franzen WAS not a prospect. He is near 30 years old right now.

[Flame4Ever]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

Personally I am not impressed by either Nemisz or Wahl, but I have not seen them enough to make a real educated decision on them.

Maybe it's just me, but what does this mean? Does that mean you're not impressed by what you've read on HF or THN Future Watch? Are you underwhelmed by theur stats?

Neimsz is a good solid two way forward with a big frame, good hockey sense, good hands and solid work ethic and leadership. He's not ever going to be a superstar, but there aren't that many players that are drafted in that range that are. If you can get a Mike Knuble, Brian Rolston type of player (ie good enough to play top line minutes at both ends of the ice, but not going to carry a line by himself) that's a very solid pick.

Wahl, I haven't seen a ton of, but I have an acquaintance that is a Chiefs' STH and he has nothing but good things to say about the kid. He's a solid two-way playmaking centreman in the WHL, and while he hasn't shown the kind of explosive improvement that Neimsz had shown, he's well over a PPG, has shown the ability to put the puck in the net a little more and still holds a gaudy +42.

[Vulcan]

+ Wahl won the cup as their first line centre. He's a winner.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

Wahl, I haven't seen a ton of, but I have an acquaintance that is a Chiefs' STH and he has nothing but good things to say about the kid. He's a solid two-way playmaking centreman in the WHL, and while he hasn't shown the kind of explosive improvement that Neimsz had shown, he's well over a PPG, has shown the ability to put the puck in the net a little more and still holds a gaudy +42.

Good post.

When Calgary took Wahl, I think Button or Sutter said they had their eyes on a few centremen they ranked all pretty equally and they were tagged to go in that range of the draft. A few of these centres went in a row (i assume O'Dell, Dalpe, and Sauve were the others) and Wahl was the last one left of that grouping. They all seemed to have done fairly well this past year. I recall Wahl started the year on almost a 2 point per game pace.

This is a quote from Wahl's coach before Calgary drafted him:

"We were doing a little battle drill in limited space and he was setting guys up left, right and center," Peters recalled. "I made the comment out loud to get the attention of our group that if I was a player on this team, I would want to play with Mitch Wahl

What makes Wahl such a special player, Peters said, is his ability to find the open man and his maturity for his age.

"He makes his wingers better and for a young guy at 17 years old, we have high expectations for Mitch," the Chiefs head coach said. "He plays against other teams best guys a lot of nights. That's hard to do at a young age in the western league but he's able to do it.

"For a kid who came out of a non-traditional market in Seal Beach, Ca., he's got very good hockey sense and elite on-ice vision."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio.../19/king_whal/

Not sure what else to expect from a guy taken in that range. I am pretty happy with the pick albeit extremely early stages.

[Imported_Aussie]

the wahl pick could turn out to be a great pick. the recent drafts are looking very strong for calgary. between backlund, nemisz and wahl, there is potentially 3 top 6 forwards, and unless these guys seriously struggle to make the jump, at least 2-3 NHL-calibre forwards, not too bad for a team that hasn't had a pick in the top 10 since phaneuf.

[icarus]

Stumbled across last year's Red Line draft report. Not the most glowing reviews of Nemisz and Wahl at that time, I wonder if their opinions have changed at all...

Nemisz: If only his effort level matched his tools...
[...]
Wahl (under most overrated players): One-dimensional scorer is gun-shy about being hit, weak in the corners, lacks upper-body strength.

http://redlinereport.com/redline.pdf

[Flame4Ever]

Wow this makes me glad that I don't spend any money on this kind of crap and do most of my assessments through personal viewings or reading people who actually follow these prospects closer than Kyle Woodlief ever does.

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

Maybe it's just me, but what does this mean? Does that mean you're not impressed by what you've read on HF or THN Future Watch? Are you underwhelmed by theur stats?

Neimsz is a good solid two way forward with a big frame, good hockey sense, good hands and solid work ethic and leadership. He's not ever going to be a superstar, but there aren't that many players that are drafted in that range that are. If you can get a Mike Knuble, Brian Rolston type of player (ie good enough to play top line minutes at both ends of the ice, but not going to carry a line by himself) that's a very solid pick.

Wahl, I haven't seen a ton of, but I have an acquaintance that is a Chiefs' STH and he has nothing but good things to say about the kid. He's a solid two-way playmaking centreman in the WHL, and while he hasn't shown the kind of explosive improvement that Neimsz had shown, he's well over a PPG, has shown the ability to put the puck in the net a little more and still holds a gaudy +42.

From my limited viewings of each kid I just havent been impressed. Nemisz's foot speed concerns me as does Wahl's toughness. I hope I am wrong though.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

From my limited viewings of each kid I just havent been impressed. Nemisz's foot speed concerns me as does Wahl's toughness. I hope I am wrong though.

Nemisz can work on his skating, and if his skating is at least NHL calibre he will be a could Knuble-style player. He may not be as effective if he isnt as quick/agile as other forwards, but as a power forward, his game will be more about using his size effectively. If he turns into that third guy on the top line/guy with soft hands and a big body near the net who scores dirty goals, that will be a good result

Wahl lacking toughness is a concern, but this is something that can improve as he matures into his body, puts on some muscle, and starts to play against bigger bodies in the AHL before reaching the NHL.

We are talking about fixable issues. You dont get can't miss guys with picks that low, everyone at that point as at least 1 question mark, otherwise they would go earlier. These guys may not progress like everyone hopes, but at least they are guys who can grow/be coached into NHL roles, not headcases

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

From my limited viewings of each kid I just havent been impressed. Nemisz's foot speed concerns me as does Wahl's toughness. I hope I am wrong though.

You yourself said though, it's been limited viewing of them both.

I don't see Nemisz's skating as that big of a concern myself, I've watched him a lot this year.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

Wow this makes me glad that I don't spend any money on this kind of crap and do most of my assessments through personal viewings or reading people who actually follow these prospects closer than Kyle Woodlief ever does.

Well its not as if Woodlief is Redline's only scout, they have regional scouts. Their one liners are definitely sensational but did you have a big problem with the paragraph long descriptions? Thats really why anyone would buy the Redline report. The rankings are interesting to some extent but the player descriptions are usually quite good. In a real draft issue they'd have those paragraph long descriptions for the top 100 players, not just the top 15 or so and it is obviously the meat of the issue. Not surprising they don't reveal the whole thing to people who haven't paid, that PDF must be a "teaser" of sorts.

I'd be curious if anyone had the Redline from last year and could post the whole paragraph description of Nemisz. The one liners are pretty pointless. But I know from buying the issue for several years in the past that their long descriptions have been fairly accurate for the most part in describing what type of player someone is. In your case it would be more useful for getting a grasp on the non-OHLers since viewing them in person is obviously preferable.

[Flame4Ever]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well its not as if Woodlief is Redline's only scout, they have regional scouts. Their one liners are definitely sensational but did you have a big problem with the paragraph long descriptions? Thats really why anyone would buy the Redline report. The rankings are interesting to some extent but the player descriptions are usually quite good. In a real draft issue they'd have those paragraph long descriptions for the top 100 players, not just the top 15 or so and it is obviously the meat of the issue. Not surprising they don't reveal the whole thing to people who haven't paid, that PDF must be a "teaser" of sorts.

Their scouting report on the OHLers is pretty poor. Hodgson's comparable is Brad Boyes ? Seriously? While he certainly can score like Boyes, Hodgson brings so many more aspects that make him a complete player.

To be fair their Q scouting seems pretty solid, however, this doesn't take away from the fact that Woodlief is all about hype and dumping on one prospect he loves to hate every year (Cherepanov was his whipping boy in his draft year). Earlier this year he was wondering if Kane's skating was going to be good enough to play in the NHL.

Originally Posted by North East Goon

Wahl lacking toughness is a concern, but this is something that can improve as he matures into his body, puts on some muscle, and starts to play against bigger bodies in the AHL before reaching the NHL.

Wahl's lack of toughness is the kind of BS perpetrated by Redline. The guy always stands up for his team mates and, contrary to what has been reported, doesn't shy away from the danger areas.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

From my limited viewings of each kid I just havent been impressed. Nemisz's foot speed concerns me as does Wahl's toughness. I hope I am wrong though.

I watched a few games on tv where wahl played brilliantly. He was a strong forechecker and controlled the play when he had the puck. Didn't seem physical or afriad of punishment either. If sam gagner can hack the physical play, wahl most certainly can.

As for nemisz, he wouldn't be on the spitfires if he wasn't an asset to the teams top 6. From what I heard earlier this year he rarely gets top pp minutes but that may have changed through the course of the season.

Both of these guys have a ton of potential. The fact that sutter come out and says it for these two goes to show how highly regarded they are with the flames. Take it for what you will but daryll hasn't been shy about knocking soft players or ones that need a ton of work before.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

Their scouting report on the OHLers is pretty poor. Hodgson's comparable is Brad Boyes ? Seriously? While he certainly can score like Boyes, Hodgson brings so many more aspects that make him a complete player.

To be fair their Q scouting seems pretty solid, however, this doesn't take away from the fact that Woodlief is all about hype and dumping on one prospect he loves to hate every year (Cherepanov was his whipping boy in his draft year). Earlier this year he was wondering if Kane's skating was going to be good enough to play in the NHL.

Wahl's lack of toughness is the kind of BS perpetrated by Redline. The guy always stands up for his team mates and, contrary to what has been reported, doesn't shy away from the danger areas.

Well I'd say the "comparables" in general almost always fail. You could argue their product might be better if that just took that sentence out for each player, lol. The actual paragraph describing their play is what I'm interested in.

Also you have to remember that these are from watching the kids in their draft year. Our analysis and expectations may have changed from what Nemisz and Wahl were able to display this year. Was Wahl a little weak looking in his draft year? I dunno, I didn't watch him at all. Did Nemisz struggle at all with intensity and consistency? I don't know. But its interesting how we take different connotations from what was said, you interpreted their comments on Wahl as being a lack of toughness, to me it sounded more like an issue of a lack of strength. One is arguably a lot easier to solve than the other.

But I know from having watched players like Getzlaf, Phaneuf, etc in their draft years and from having bought Redline that year that their descriptions were fairly accurate. Also having bought issues from the early 2000's its interesting to look back and see that their descriptions of the players were fairly solid even players I hadn't seen in junior but now see in the NHL.

Your comment about Woodlief harping on certain players is probably one of their biggest faults IMO. Perhaps they think it helps them sell issues and keeps their name in the mix as people are like, "what the hell is redline on about RE: that guy". But you'd probably find some of that in the business as scouts may be huge supporters of certain guys in particular and can't figure out why everyone doesn't see it (but are probably glad everyone doesn't) and same with prospects that may appear to be highly touted and a scout can't figure out why anybody is even talking about that kid. I know I've heard that at least one team didn't have Alexandre Picard (who went top 12 to Columbus I believe) on their draft list at all. Wild divergences in opinion are the rule in scouting almost, we almost never see consensus opinion except on the top couple players.

The whole underrated/overrated section is usually garbage because its an analysis of where Redline has certain players in regards to their perception where all the other teams have them. And this fails badly due to misinformation. Redline will say, "X is a surefire first rounder but we don't like him that much, he's overrated." Then the kid will go 3rd round. So was he overrated? Guess not.

Anyways having previously bought their product I was fairly happy. These "teasers" are what, like 6 pages out of a 31 page issue? They pack a bunch of stuff in and its even more interesting to get a whole years subscription and see the movement and get detailed reports on the European tourneys. I would consider buying their draft issue again. Some of the stuff in there is total crap including the one line descriptions, the "comparable" player, the underrated/overrated section, the mock draft, etc. But like I said the meat of the issue is the paragraph long descriptions of the top 100 or so prospects. To expect Redline to be perfect is even more unrealistic than expecting a team to have a perfect draft list, something we know does not happen. But if someone wants a handle on the types of players that will go in rounds 1-3, this product is much superior to THN's draft guide and quite a bit better than the central scouting descriptions which usually shy away from saying anything negative. I haven't tried ISS or anything else though. I'd only buy the draft guide if the $50 or whatever it costs was not a big deal to me, anyone who is pinching pennies probably wouldn't wanna bother.

It is what it is.