05-03-2019, 02:34 AM
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#1
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Franchise Player
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Sean Monahan’s biggest offseason
He is only 24. He took a huge step in the first half of the season, and still ended up beating his career year by 18 points.
This is all nice and good, but where did he disappear in the second half of the season? My answer is he didn’t, the Flames’ transition game did. A lot of the first line’s offense was from gaining the offensive zone with speed and/or creating odd man rush opportunities. It in turn created the exact same effect the Colorado series had on the Flames. Teams would back up, and give pucks away by dumping them in after defending. They would do it because they were tired, and defenders were backing off trying to play mistake free hockey. The problem I have with that sort of hockey is that it’s Gulutzan hockey. Every mistake is so much more meaningful, and so much more deflating to the team when you try to be perfect. What broke the Flames in both the Anaheim series and the Avs series was momentum, once they Flames lost it they couldn’t get it back.
Back to Monahan, can he be better? Absolutely! Monahan lacks speed, physicality, a mean streak, and a bit of defensive awareness. Judging from Conroy’s comments he will be working most of the summer on his skating, and I don’t have any doubt it will be much improved because of the type of person he is. Of course there is a measure of speculation on my part, but he is a guy that just shrugged off rehab after 4 surgeries last off season. He did it and he got better. As far as a mean streak, well that’s just not the type of player he is. He is just too nice of a guy to punch someone in the face with any sort of consistency. As far as physical play, he can hold his own as long as he doesn’t let defenders off the hook and finishes checks. In terms of defensive awareness, he is getting better. He took strides in that department this year, by playing against the other teams first lines for part of the season. There is definitely a lot to work on though.
One thing is for certain, in order to find out what we really have in Monahan(and to an extant in Gaudreau) is to split him from Gaudreau for a few games. There were several experiments, but neither has lasted for more than a couple of periods or a game. I think that with a good offseason both Monahan and Gaudreau will have what it takes to carry their own lines. On the other hand, how often were the Sedins split up? But this management group sure likes the word options when it comes to potential lineups.
Finally, I am sure there are holes in some of the points I made, but I am hoping the discussion would go more towards your thoughts on what Monahan has to do to join the Elite #1 centre club, and does he have it in him in your opinion?
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05-03-2019, 05:17 AM
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#2
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Franchise Player
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I don’t think that Monny has what it takes to carry a line, as he’s shown no ability to do so in the past. He needs someone to feed him the puck in great scoring area’s to be effective.
Now, there aren’t a ton of players that can actually carry a line, so it doesn’t’t make him garbage.
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05-03-2019, 06:49 AM
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#3
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Are there 31 centers in the league better than him? I don't think so but his skating and timid style of play gets exposed at times and he's just not a guy that is going to carry a team like Couture, MacKinnon, Getzlaf, etc and he doesn't have the 2-way capabilities of a Bergeron, Barkov, Couturier, etc. He's kind of an outlier in that he's a really good finisher that knows how to get in position, has great hands around the net, that is just passable at everything else. At 24 years old there is still time for him to improve at other areas so we should be careful not to write him off because 30 goal centers don't grow on trees and it's less that he's not a great player and more that the Flames are at that stage where to take the next step they need more from him.
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05-03-2019, 06:49 AM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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If he can improve his skating and intensity level he could totally be in that group. The problem is that Monahan by nature is not an intense guy so I just can't ever see him bringing that to his game. He can learn to skate better, he can't really change his natural makeup.
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05-03-2019, 06:53 AM
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#5
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Powerplay Quarterback
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I think Monahan will be okay this next year. By metrics alone, he's a solid number 1 center. He has his deficiencies, but I would think the fact that he's wears an A, means he is a good influence in the room and has a high give a crap meter. The sting of how they went out will likely sit with him, and hopefully provide some fire. He won't turn into Jonathan Toews, but if he can improve one thing this summer, and that's his skating, I think we'll see the transition game return and less defensive gaffes. Everybody, including me, seem to wonder why he can't find a mean streak to be physical, but I honestly think he's just not that guy, which is fine. If he gets faster, he won't need to be more physical. He can be smarter and get position instead.
One thing that kind of boggles my mind, and I'm sure it's been said before, is why he's not nasty or mean, considering he played high level lacrosse. Lacrosse is such a mean sport, I'm surprised that hasn't translated to his hockey game.
Last edited by manwiches; 05-03-2019 at 07:39 AM.
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05-03-2019, 07:48 AM
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#6
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GOAT!
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A 6’3” 210lbs lacrosse player nominated for the Lady Byng.
Monny has been one of my favourite players since he came into the league, but for the love of God... less Spezza, more Getzlaf.
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05-03-2019, 07:54 AM
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#7
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Franchise Player
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I assume that young hockey players would have been trying to improve their skating their whole life.
At the age of 24, should we really expect a sudden improvement?
I expect it's his intensity level that really needs to improve.
I seem to recall that one of the reasons Chicago got Hossa (aside from his immense hockey abilities) was to give a good role model for guys like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp to help them learn what it takes to win in the playoffs.
Now Hossa lost the last 2 finals before he got to Chicago, but it wasn't his doing per se, and it takes a lot just to get there. Guys like Toews likely already had it, but I'm guessing Hossa taught those guys how to channel it and use it effectively.
Things like that can click in suddenly, and then, perhaps, everyone starts to buy in. Let's hope that's what happens to Calgary.
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05-03-2019, 08:35 AM
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#8
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
I assume that young hockey players would have been trying to improve their skating their whole life.
At the age of 24, should we really expect a sudden improvement?
I expect it's his intensity level that really needs to improve.
I seem to recall that one of the reasons Chicago got Hossa (aside from his immense hockey abilities) was to give a good role model for guys like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp to help them learn what it takes to win in the playoffs.
Now Hossa lost the last 2 finals before he got to Chicago, but it wasn't his doing per se, and it takes a lot just to get there. Guys like Toews likely already had it, but I'm guessing Hossa taught those guys how to channel it and use it effectively.
Things like that can click in suddenly, and then, perhaps, everyone starts to buy in. Let's hope that's what happens to Calgary.
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I think this was the line of thinking that resulted in the additions of Brouwer and Neal.
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05-03-2019, 08:40 AM
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#9
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
I assume that young hockey players would have been trying to improve their skating their whole life.
At the age of 24, should we really expect a sudden improvement?
I expect it's his intensity level that really needs to improve.
I seem to recall that one of the reasons Chicago got Hossa (aside from his immense hockey abilities) was to give a good role model for guys like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp to help them learn what it takes to win in the playoffs.
Now Hossa lost the last 2 finals before he got to Chicago, but it wasn't his doing per se, and it takes a lot just to get there. Guys like Toews likely already had it, but I'm guessing Hossa taught those guys how to channel it and use it effectively.
Things like that can click in suddenly, and then, perhaps, everyone starts to buy in. Let's hope that's what happens to Calgary.
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I think we could expect an improvement in Monahan’s speed, as I assume the last couple of summers he was mostly strengthening his wrist/doing rehab and so on. He was also heavily sheltered in his first couple of years, as a result I think he was working on his release, his shot, and on getting bigger instead of his speed. A lot of speculation on my part, but I prefer to be a glass half full kind of guy.
As far as the Hossa analogy, that was supposed to be James Neal(or Jagr). The click is supposed to come from the players, not from a magic addition of one player.
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05-03-2019, 08:40 AM
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#10
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
I think this was the line of thinking that resulted in the additions of Brouwer and Neal.
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I think that is correct, although Brouwer and Neal could never be confused with the immense talent of Marian Hossa.
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05-03-2019, 08:46 AM
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#11
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Sean Monahan’s biggest offseason
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
I don’t think that Monny has what it takes to carry a line, as he’s shown no ability to do so in the past. He needs someone to feed him the puck in great scoring area’s to be effective.
Now, there aren’t a ton of players that can actually carry a line, so it doesn’t’t make him garbage.
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It hasn’t happened often, but the few games Gaudreau has missed with injuries Monahan has played just fine in his absence. On the flip-side, when Monahan was shut down last year both Gaudreau and Michael Ferland disappeared completely.
Monahan is much more important to the top-line’s success than many seem to notice. I think he would fare well carrying his own line, but I also don’t see any good reason to split the Flames’s best offensive threats. Gaudreau and Monahan thrive off of one another, and neither one is the same without the other.
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Last edited by Textcritic; 05-03-2019 at 08:49 AM.
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05-03-2019, 09:00 AM
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#12
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First Line Centre
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I've been thinking about Monahan quite a bit lately, like many. Although the numbers speak for themself, point totals growing culminating in a career high this year, has Monahan taken any significant steps forward in his game over the past 2-3 years?
On one hand the answer is obvious, look at the point totals, dummy. But there's much more to it.
I think an apt comparison is Bo Horvat. Both are the same age, same position, drafted close to one another, and play similar roles on their teams. From an offensive standpoint, I'd say Monahan was dealt the better hand by having Gaudreau on his wing for the majority of his career to date. Coming out of the draft, I felt the Flames selected the right guy.
That said, I would have to say Horvat is on a much steeper trajectory. His game has taken strides forward in many areas, and now that he has some support, he's likely to continue to improve. He's becoming, or has become,a play driving C.
Monahan strikes me as a player who has plateaued. For the Flames to improve he must focus on other parts of his game. Finding room in the slot is not enough. He's not going to become a physically imposing player, although he has the size to, but he must improve his skating and play away from the puck.
At this point in time, I would have to say Horvat is the more valuable of the two. This is disappointing because it seems as though this is result of one player being able to identify areas of improvement and doing it, while the other seems complacent.
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05-03-2019, 09:20 AM
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#13
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Calgary
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The thing about Monahan is that he's not a dynamic player, like a Mackinnon, Crosby, Couture etc. There is only really one scenario when Monahan has the puck on his stick that other teams are afraid of him: in the slot. If Monahan has the puck anywhere else on the ice I'm never sitting at home thinking "Look out, Monny is about to make a big play". It's just not the type of player he is, and that won't change.
I like Monahan. He puts up big numbers, and is typically a very clutch player. I don't put much of the blame on him for the failure in the playoffs. The whole team was absolutely awful, and Monahan is not a gamebreaker. If we're not in the offensive zone with action around the net, there really is nothing for Monny to do.
Monahan isn't magically going to become a centre who dictates play. Against Colorado we couldn't gain the zone and create havoc around the net. Monahan isn't the guy that dictates that type of play and pace, but he is one of the best at capitalizing off of it.
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05-03-2019, 09:26 AM
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#14
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanIn80
A 6’3” 210lbs lacrosse player nominated for the Lady Byng.
Monny has been one of my favourite players since he came into the league, but for the love of God... less Spezza, more Getzlaf.
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Spezza was excellent at controlling the puck and the offensive zone in his heyday. he's largely responsible for Heatley turning into that One-T Clapper guy during his stint in Ottawa, as all he had to do was glide around with his stick in the air waiting for Spezza to dish. I would be absolutely thrilled if Monahan gained the ability to possess the puck that way.
can anyone think of an example where a centre with marginal puck carrying skill was able to significantly improve that ability in his mid-20's? I had always assumed that's something you come into the league with, but it would make me feel a lot better if there was even a small chance it could happen.
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05-03-2019, 09:32 AM
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#15
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Uranus
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If you look at it in a vacuum, sure, he's a decent offensive player. But a centre, especially in an offensive or top line role, needs to contribute to driving the play, creating time and space etc. They also need to be adept at handling other teams top centre's, another thing he doesn't really do.
Monahan is a passable centre that leave a heck of a lot to be desired. A guy that really isn't going to drag or be dragged into any kind of a battle. Even so, he can still be effective if he's assertive and taking charge of the middle of the ice. The problem is, he's just not very good at doing it when the games matter or the intensity ratchets up every season. Butter soft.
__________________
I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 05-03-2019 at 09:34 AM.
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05-03-2019, 09:41 AM
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#16
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Jah Chalgary
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Hockey is not static science, you can have good games and bad games. You can have hot streaks and cold streaks. You can have great seasons and poor playoffs. Every year is different though.
Monahan had 4 goals in 4 games against the Ducks in 2017 (age 22) and 6 points in 11 games in 2015 (age 20).
Yes, he was not good these playoffs just like the rest of the top line which combined for 5 points in 5 games. I think they will have a better showing next year.
You're not going to dramatically change a player from what he's been his entire career.
There just isn't that many examples of people transforming their games drastically especially after making the NHL. If he can improve on technical skills that are lacking like skating, he will be just fine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion
The Oilers don't need a Giordano. They have a glut of him.
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05-03-2019, 09:43 AM
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#17
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Franchise Player
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I don’t blame Monahan for the Flames sucking out loud in the playoffs (again). That’s on the entire team and coaching staff for allowing one player to completely dictate the series. But he certainly showed what kind of player he is post-ASB, and I’m not convinced this team ever wins anything if he’s the best centre on the roster.
Unfortunately I’m not even sure that’s a problem this team can solve without a proper tear-down rebuild where they end up drafting that player.
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05-03-2019, 09:48 AM
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#18
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First Line Centre
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Monahans lack of speed is a direct result of playing with Gaudreau.
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05-03-2019, 10:21 AM
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#19
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 442scotty
Monahans lack of speed is a direct result of playing with Gaudreau.
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That makes sense.
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05-03-2019, 10:22 AM
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#20
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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Bergeron or O'Reilly aren't much more (if any) dynamic than Monahan, and not much faster. They just commit to playing hard, playing 200' and being great at FO. Monahan can do that if he wants to. Treliving and Peters need to have a good read on that. If they think he won't, then Treliving needs to find a real #1C, whether by trading Monahan or finding someone to slot ahead of him (easier said than done).
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