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Old 05-25-2022, 08:54 PM   #621
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Its interesting as a day 1 Flames fan who has witnessed alot of stunning playoff failures. When the Flames are up 3-1 in a series I have no sense of confidence that they will close it out. I assume most other fan bases don’t feel that way. Being down 3-1, I just can’t help but assume the worst. I don’t mean to be a downer but I’ve just been burned so many times by generations of Flames teams. The main constant that I have witnessed is a lack of killer instinct and a lack of mental toughness. The players, managment etc change but that seems to remain part of this franchise’s DNA for some reason.

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Old 05-25-2022, 09:08 PM   #622
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Its interesting as a day 1 Flames fan who has witnessed allot of stunning playoff failures. When the Flames are up 3-1 in a series I have no sense of confidence that they will close it out. I assume most other fan bases don’t feel that way. Being down 3-1, I just can’t help but assume the worst. I don’t mean to be a downer but I’ve just been burned so many times by generations of Flames teams. The main constant that I have witnessed is a lack of killer instinct and a lack of mental toughness. The players, managment etc change but that seems to remain part of this franchise’s DNA for some reason.
How does that hang around from generation to generation? It truly is frustrating.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:12 PM   #623
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I have no idea but it certainly seems to have hung around. I’d even argue the 89 Cup Champs were mentally weak compared to the Oilers of that era. Those Oilers would never have gone to game 7 OT w the Canucks
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:21 PM   #624
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How does that hang around from generation to generation? It truly is frustrating.
I've been wondering this too lately. I'm wondering if it's Observational Learning, or 'monkey see, monkey do' type learning.

Players dribble in slowly, so they have a chance to be 'learn' the lack of killer instinct over a season or two. It's not like 1/2 or 3/4 of the team is replaced at a time, so it just insidiously persists.

"This is the way we've always done it, so this is the way we'll always do it."
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:21 PM   #625
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I have no idea but it certainly seems to have hung around. I’d even argue the 89 Cup Champs were mentally weak compared to the Oilers of that era. Those Oilers would never have gone to game 7 OT w the Canucks
You mean the Oilers , who were up 3 games to one, on the LA Kings in 89?

They lost games 5,6 and 7 to lose the series.

That “mentally strong “ team?

Try again.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:25 PM   #626
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While I agree that a case could be made for Vladar, I just cannot see Sutter making that change.

Another coach? Maybe... but Sutter is guy who sticks to who got you to the dance in the first place...

Throwing Vladar into his first playoff start, in a must win situation in the BOA? I don't know what you are going to get...Sutter is a guy that wants to be sure of what he is going to get in a game.

My heart says Vladar, but my head says Markstromm...
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:28 PM   #627
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You mean the Oilers , who were up 3 games to one, on the LA Kings in 89?

They lost games 5,6 and 7 to lose the series.

That “mentally strong “ team?

Try again.
The Kings did have the Oilers best player by then. I’m sure he’s meaning the oilers with Gretzky
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:32 PM   #628
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The Kings did have the Oilers best player by then. I’m sure he’s meaning the oilers with Gretzky
You would be dead wrong....

As his exact statement was,

“ I’d even argue the 89 Cup Champs were mentally weak compared to the Oilers of that era. “
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:32 PM   #629
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86 Oilers lost to the Flames...most cup champs got pushed to the brink at some point
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:33 PM   #630
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Its interesting as a day 1 Flames fan who has witnessed alot of stunning playoff failures. When the Flames are up 3-1 in a series I have no sense of confidence that they will close it out. I assume most other fan bases don’t feel that way. Being down 3-1, I just can’t help but assume the worst. I don’t mean to be a downer but I’ve just been burned so many times by generations of Flames teams. The main constant that I have witnessed is a lack of killer instinct and a lack of mental toughness. The players, managment etc change but that seems to remain part of this franchise’s DNA for some reason.



This is EXACTLY how I see it. I've been burnt so many times since the 80s, it's kind of bizarre.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:34 PM   #631
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You would be dead wrong....

As his exact statement was,

“ I’d even argue the 89 Cup Champs were mentally weak compared to the Oilers of that era. “
That Era means that year? I’m pretty sure he meant the oilers of the 80s
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:34 PM   #632
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What I was thinking when I typed and if it wasn't clear the Oilers of the 80’s were a far more mentally strong bunch. I wasn't thinking of a particular season, I was thinking in general terms. Pains me to say as a Flames fan
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:35 PM   #633
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86 Oilers lost to the Flames...most cup champs got pushed to the brink at some point
Sadly that’s the only time we beat them in a series and it took them scoring in their own net. Not sure if that’s not team mentally tough vs just a bad play
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:37 PM   #634
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Sadly that’s the only time we beat them in a series and it took them scoring in their own net. Not sure if that’s not team mentally tough vs just a bad play
Well they won the other 3 games and had that one tied in the third and hung onto the lead. Anyway that's besides the point about top teams being taken to the brink.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:38 PM   #635
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I stated my explanation and its getting very late where I am so I’m off to bed. I do hope the Flames pull off a miracle but I’m not optimistic. Happy to be wrong.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:42 PM   #636
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That Era means that year? I’m pretty sure he meant the oilers of the 80s
LOL. He, specifically mentioned the 1989 Flames.

I’m pretty sure the Flames beat the superstar laden Oilers in 86 , also.

Flames mentally weak in that era? Not a chance.

Talent weak compared to the Oilers? Yep.

A very uneducated opinion, IMO.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:43 PM   #637
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Sadly that’s the only time we beat them in a series and it took them scoring in their own net. Not sure if that’s not team mentally tough vs just a bad play
No offence, but not a clue.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:44 PM   #638
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What I was thinking when I typed and if it wasn't clear the Oilers of the 80’s were a far more mentally strong bunch. I wasn't thinking of a particular season, I was thinking in general terms. Pains me to say as a Flames fan
1982 Kings vs Oilers is still one of my most favorite playoff series to date, and that Kings team was as bad as the Canucks of 89
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:44 PM   #639
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How does that hang around from generation to generation? It truly is frustrating.
It doesn’t. It’s just easy to find what appear to be losing patterns in sports because, more often than not, your team will lose.

Even from this team to the 2019 team there aren’t more than a handful of players still around. Any similarities are likely down to coincidence more than anything else. Maybe a few specific things, especially as it relates to the players who are still here, but otherwise it’s mostly just happenstance.

It reminds me of the “we always let goalies get their first nhl win/shutout” or “we must lead the league in first nhl goals scored against us” and the like. Fans grossly overestimate these occurrences. Same thing happens with “factory of sadness” type proclamations. There are a few orgs who blow it more often and a few that seem to be more clutch but overall it evens out.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:45 PM   #640
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What I was thinking when I typed and if it wasn't clear the Oilers of the 80’s were a far more mentally strong bunch. I wasn't thinking of a particular season, I was thinking in general terms. Pains me to say as a Flames fan
Way more skilled.

Nothing to do with mental strength.
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