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Old 12-05-2019, 01:22 AM   #1
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Default Dec 7th 1941 - Pearl Harbor

Events in WW2 on Dec 5th 1941


  • Britain declared war on Finland, Hungary and Romania
  • On Dec 4th the Chicago Tribune and Washington times had leaked Rainbow 5, American's plans for a war with Germany, this created a flury of accusations by isolationists that Roosevelt fully intended to enter into the war with Germany.
  • On December 5th War Secretary Henry L. Stimson said during a press conference that those responsible for the previous day's leaking of American war plans were "wanting in loyalty and patriotism." Stimson also offered a statement asking, "What would you think of an American general staff which in the present condition of the world did not investigate and study every conceivable type of emergency which may confront this country and every possible method of meeting that emergency?"The White House made no other comment on the matter and it would quickly be forgotten about after the events of December 7
  • Japan responded to Roosevelt's inquiry of December 2 by saying that foreign reports of the number of Japanese troops in French Indochina were exaggerated and the troop concentrations were in full accord with the agreement between Tokyo and Vichy
Japanese fleet approach to Pearl Harbor
Spoiler!
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:38 AM   #2
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I can't believe this is the first year you've made a thread on Pearl Harbor on this day.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:18 AM   #3
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Listen to Dan Carlin’s latest hardcore history series, Supernova in the East. I’m looking forward to the next episode which will hopefully talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:37 AM   #4
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We should have a general WWII thread.

There is a great deal of interest.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:15 AM   #5
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We should have a general WWII thread.

There is a great deal of interest.
I have been to Pearl Harbor and done the tour and it was very good. However, I just did a tour at the new museum in New Orleans. That was amazing.

They have a ton of original equipment including full bombers you can walk right up to.

My biggest take away was how rudimentary the technology was, and how basic the finishing was.

Think of a plane made from sheet metal with wires hanging everywhere. Cramped gunner spots on bombers.

Anyways, I found it to be the best museum I have ever been to. I would totally like to learn more about that period.
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:29 PM   #6
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I love so much about New Orleans but that museum is my favourite. I spent two days there last trip and need to return for all that I missed and the new stuff. I got to see a Higgins boat and talk with a guy who knew all about them.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:19 PM   #7
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This is the best animated video I have ever seen in regards to the strategy elements and thinking behind Pearl Harbour. The maker has an amazing video on the Battle of Midway he never finished, from the Japanese's perspective in the fog of war.



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Old 12-05-2019, 02:43 PM   #8
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:37 PM   #9
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This is the best animated video I have ever seen in regards to the strategy elements and thinking behind Pearl Harbour. The maker has an amazing video on the Battle of Midway he never finished, from the Japanese's perspective in the fog of war.
Well there goes the rest of my afternoon.
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:43 PM   #10
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There's a excellent movie on Midway on Netflix with all of the film footage shot by John Ford. Its a must checkout.
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Old 12-05-2019, 04:09 PM   #11
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Its interesting that the Japanese had so completely deceived the Americans leading up to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Through the use of radio messages and fleet movements, the American's believed that the Japanese were going to attack American interests soon, but had no strong reason to believe that an attack would happen against a major American base like Pearl Harbor.



Instead Roosevelt and the rest of the US government believed that the imitate attack would happen in South East Asia.


In fact at this point in time, America still believed that there was a chance at a diplomatic solution to the tensions between America and Japan. that would change early on December 7th.


In fact Roosevelt sent one final appeal to the Emperor on December 6th, of course Hirohito would openly smile at receiving the plea from Roosevelt as there was nothing stopping the attack the following morning.


There are pictures from Dec 6th of Pearl Harbor with the Pacific fleet tied up closely together and planes lined up on run ways. The only real tip to a concern on a Japanese attack were anti-submarine nets put up throughout the harbor.



Meanwhile life continued normally in Pearl Harbor as people went shopping and spent time with their families.






President Roosevelt wrote a personal appeal to Emperor Hirohito to avoid war between the United States and Japan. "Developments are occurring in the Pacific area which threaten to deprive each of our Nations and all humanity of the beneficial influence of the long peace between our two countries." the president wrote. "Those developments contain tragic possibilities ... I address myself to Your Majesty at this moment in the fervent hope that Your Majesty may, as I am doing, give thought in this definite emergency to ways of dispelling the dark clouds. I am confident that both of us, for the sake of the peoples not only of our own great countries but for the sake of humanity in neighboring territories, have a sacred duty to restore traditional amity and prevent further death and destruction in the world."
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:31 PM   #12
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On our sun/dive trip earlier in the year to Hawaii and Palau we had a couple of WWII "museums" we visited, Pearl and Peleliu.

Pearl was pretty interesting and a more balanced view than I was expecting. We only did the basic tour, we didn't have time for the Missouri or the Bowfin which gives me a reason to go back. The Arizona memorial was still closed for maintenance (February) but they took you out on the boat and floated you past it while the recording played. I sort of felt bad for the sailors who had to listen to that on repeat...but then they are serving out their orders in some pretty nice conditions so it may even out.

A couple of crappy pics...

Spoiler!


As a (long) aside, Peleliu was an amazing place. It's an island off the now dive mecca of Palau. For those who watched The Pacific HBO series or know your WWII history, it was a major Japanese airbase which the Americans wanted as a part of the assault on Japan. The offensive was expected to be over in a couple of days and it took a couple of months as the Japanese were so dug in and battled so hard. Now a large part of the island is basically an open-air museum. You can tour the airfield, landing sites, Japanese headquarters, a large cave system and a there are a couple of tanks and planes left to rust in the sun. The inner 12-year-old boy in me loved walking through the buildings and seeing the crumpled Zero and the tanks while the middle-aged man in me marvelled at how terrible the conditions must have been for both sides and the bravery and sheer will it would have taken to keep fighting.

The tour we took was fantastic and a real highlight of the entire trip. Fun fact, there are large areas of the island off-limits to anyone because of potential mines and unexploded ordinance. You don't go wandering off on your own adventure through the jungle. On our tour, we passed an Australian mine sweeping team as they cleared an area and our local guide took us to the cave where the Japanese commander took his life. On the way there we passed by red and white markers and taped off areas which were indicators the area had potential mines. Again, the 12-year-old me was thrilled.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:50 AM   #13
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Some pics I took at Pear Harbour a few years back.



Took these on the Battleship Missouri - Peace Treaty signed by Japan.





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Old 12-06-2019, 02:03 AM   #14
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A glimpse inside the Battleship Missouri

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Old 12-06-2019, 09:29 AM   #15
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I have a real affection for Battleships and their history.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:33 AM   #16
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I have a real affection for Battleships and their history.
Great grey giants, bowed in anxious thought.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:42 AM   #17
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I heard from a living veteran of the USS Iowa (battleship) that the surrender was supposed to be signed on the Iowa, but because Truman was from Missouri, he ordered the plans to change last minute and for the surrender to take place on that ship instead.

The USS Iowa had the honor of ferrying FDR to the Tehran conference. This was a rare instance where the president would be subject to the orders of the captain of the ship.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:45 PM   #18
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I heard from a living veteran of the USS Iowa (battleship) that the surrender was supposed to be signed on the Iowa, but because Truman was from Missouri, he ordered the plans to change last minute and for the surrender to take place on that ship instead.

The USS Iowa had the honor of ferrying FDR to the Tehran conference. This was a rare instance where the president would be subject to the orders of the captain of the ship.

That was conveyed to us two weeks ago when we visited the USS Iowa in Los Angeles. The surrender was signed on the Missouri because Truman was from Missouri. Cool battleship to visit by the way.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:02 PM   #19
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Another reason was that Missouri at the time was the flagship of the Third Fleet. Easy way to select when you have several famous ships that could make a good claim for the honor.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:22 PM   #20
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Great thread! We toured a ww2 submarine while visiting San Francisco the summer before last. It’s truly unbelievable the conditions those guys had to endure just day to day. During combat it must have been horrific
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