[PGT] Flames beat Pens! End Losing Streak!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why is everyone posting duplicate (triplicate) posts in this thread?

The site has been crashing - they are probably hitting send more than once

[imeubu]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Or not what? I don't understand what you are talking about.

Did you read Johnson's piece?

Yes.


But that does not mean that every talented prospect who his easing his way into the NHL is being "mismanaged."

argumentum ad absurdum. Say it ain't so Joe... and you a text critic.

I see absolutely nothing askew....

Precisely why other perspectives can be useful for those truly prepared to surrender their existing ideas for higher ones.


What "observations"? What should not be "facilitated"? What is "given"?

Being a tad obtuse and pedantic here are we not? Clearly meant "if there are any other issues... I'm not suggesting that talent alone should trump them". Why would you find the need to growl, demean and demand specificity when nuance and common sense can suffice. This is not a mathematical proof we're discussing. I'm not going to dabble in "hearsay". I don't quote it... I don't value it. I also don't deny it exists. It's out there... go find it yourself.

For greater clarity... "I hope not... but I wonder if... Kylington's youthful personae/past is being given more weight than it should... because this guy is a real talent.

How is this relevant?

Well I guess I'm seeing "relevance" in playoffs/injuries and Seattle expansion. If somehow Kylington should have stayed and didn't I'd be sad. Just trying to keep a "lighthouse" perspective in case he ends up unprotected or gets bundled up in some trade deal that we regret.


Comment about what? What exactly are you expecting here?

More ice time. Special teams. Get ready for playoffs and be better prepared in case he has to step up in the event of injuries. At least give him his regular shifts.


But this is your opinion about a player that you watch on television or at a distance from a seat in an arena. There are manifold reasons for why a 21-year-old first year NHL defenseman is being sheltered and limited in his usage. You will need a hell of a lot more than your own impressions to convince anyone of "mismanagement."

Mismanagement is almost always something that results from "out of awareness". No need to infer "fault" or "criticism". Very similar to the passenger in a car saying "look out". Why attack my credentials? I've offered none.


The answer to your question is "this is pretty normal."

Well let's hope we don't fumble away something extraordinary by treating it as if it isn't... treating it normally as if it is normal.

You're not Spiderman. I suggest what you are sensing is more likely to stem from something you ate.

So the message is lost because the person carrying it wasn't considered qualified? How exactly do "credentials" and "authority" predict performance? Now I'm baiting... I'm sorry. They don't of course.

The message is what it is.. who delivers it is a factor that is far too often allowed to bias.

[iloveicedhockey]

Agreed. This is weird.

He fell at the draft because there were concerns about personality and perhaps arrogance I think but nothing since he's been with the organisation suggests he's got off ice issues. He'll continue to grow, hopefully into a second pair guy. His skating is a joy to watch at times.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by imeubu

So the message is lost because the person carrying it wasn't considered qualified? How exactly do "credentials" and "authority" predict performance? Now I'm baiting... I'm sorry. They don't of course.

The message is what it is.. who delivers it is a factor that is far too often allowed to bias.

What you're not doing is a risk analysis.

There is risk by rushing a player, by giving them far too much responsibility too soon. As a prime example, consider the Oilers.

Now consider the risk of easing them into a role. What is the risk of giving the player time to learn, adjust, and gain experience?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by the2bears

What you're not doing is a risk analysis.

There is risk by rushing a player, by giving them far too much responsibility too soon. As a prime example, consider the Oilers.

Now consider the risk of easing them into a role. What is the risk of giving the player time to learn, adjust, and gain experience?

not to mention i am not sure who gets less ice time in order to give Kylington more?

I'm very bullish on Kylington, and think that he will be part of the D core for a decade to come (expansion draft aside).

but the reality is that he is not better than Gio, Brodie, Hamonic and Hanifin at this point in time...but i've seen Oliver play late in games with Calgary protecting a lead, which, to me, seems to be a solid endorsement of the player by the staff.

the only thing that could be increased is giving him more time on the 2nd pp unit. Otherwise, i think the staff has handled all the young defense man really well and its showing as their play has been very good all year.

[EldrickOnIce]

I just read the last 3 or 4 pages in this thread.
I feel regret

[imeubu]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Or not what? I don't understand what you are talking about.

Did you read Johnson's piece?

Yes. It is why I wrote originally.


But that does not mean that every talented prospect who his easing his way into the NHL is being "mismanaged." I see absolutely nothing askew with how the Flames have handled Kylington. Quite to the contrary: they had him already playing professional games in North America as an 18-year-old in his draft + 1 season.


argumentum ad absurdum. Say it ain't so Joe... and you being a "text critic" and all.

I see nothing askew...

Precisely why other perspectives can be useful for those truly prepared to surrender their existing beliefs for a higher ideal

I am honestly confused by all of this. What "observations"? What should not be "facilitated"? What is "given"?

Being a tad obtuse and pedantic here are we not? Clearly meant "if there are any other issues... I'm not suggesting that talent alone should trump them". Why would you find the need to growl, demean and demand specificity when nuance and common sense can suffice. This is not a mathematical proof we're discussing. I'm not going to dabble in "hearsay". I don't quote it... I don't value it. I also don't deny it exists. It's out there... go find it yourself.

For greater clarity... "I hope not... but I wonder if... Kylington's youthful personae/past is being given more weight than it should... because this guy is a real talent.


How is this relevant?


Well I guess I'm seeing "relevance" in playoffs/injuries and Seattle expansion. If somehow Kylington should have stayed and didn't I'd be sad. Just trying to keep a "lighthouse" perspective in case he ends up unprotected or gets bundled up in some trade deal that we regret.


Comment about what? What exactly are you expecting here?

From this chat experience - more cooperation and less competition.

For Kylington and the Flames - Not expecting so much as questioning. More ice time. Special teams. Get ready for playoffs and be better prepared in case he has to step up in the event of injuries. At least give him his regular shifts.


But this is your opinion about a player that you watch on television or at a distance from a seat in an arena. There are manifold reasons for why a 21-year-old first year NHL defenseman is being sheltered and limited in his usage. You will need a hell of a lot more than your own impressions to convince anyone of "mismanagement."

When you begin your response with "but" sending a message of "exclusion" rather than something more "inclusive" you bely agenda. I can tell you that my use of the word mismanagement comes from my knowledge that almost all mismanagement results from "out of awareness".

No need to infer "fault" or "criticism". Not suggesting someone is seeing what I'm seeing, has validated it and has then chosen to ignore it. I'm just musing that perhaps "the book" is getting in the way here and something is out of focus. Very similar to the passenger in a car saying "look out". The correct response when that happens is to get your head up. Not ask the passenger for their "credentials". Why attack the credentials or assign motivation? I've offered none.

The answer to your question is "this is pretty normal."


Well let's hope we don't fumble away something extraordinary by treating it as if it isn't... treating it normally when it is anything but normal.

You're not Spiderman. I suggest what you are sensing is more likely to stem from something you ate.

Could well be. I was just posing a question. Trying to get some "go" behind the idea that Kylington is more than what it appears to me that the Calgary fans and the Calgary Flames are seeing.

[imeubu]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not to mention i am not sure who gets less ice time in order to give Kylington more?

I'm very bullish on Kylington, and think that he will be part of the D core for a decade to come (expansion draft aside).

but the reality is that he is not better than Gio, Brodie, Hamonic and Hanifin at this point in time...but i've seen Oliver play late in games with Calgary protecting a lead, which, to me, seems to be a solid endorsement of the player by the staff.

the only thing that could be increased is giving him more time on the 2nd pp unit. Otherwise, i think the staff has handled all the young defense man really well and its showing as their play has been very good all year.

I would suggest Hanifin for sure and then I see very important players like Gio and Anderson being played to death and ask why?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by imeubu

That he is at heart a great kid.

Good. We agree. Case closed. End of thread.

[Mightyfire89]

[topfiverecords]

Am I reading a translator?

Now I’m tired

[midniteowl]

Oh my god, is this another gaudreauovertime (or whatever that poster's name was)time?

[PsYcNeT]

Maybe Kylington's off-ice issue is making parachute accounts on hockey forums.

[BigBrodieFan]

[devo22]

Originally Posted by AC

easily the greatest Flames gifs I've seen in a long, long time. How can you not love Hamonic? There's a lot of tough players in this league, but he's something else. Can't imagine the level of pain he's been playing through this season, what a warrior.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by devo22

easily the greatest Flames gifs I've seen in a long, long time. How can you not love Hamonic? There's a lot of tough players in this league, but he's something else. Can't imagine the level of pain he's been playing through this season, what a warrior.

Absolutely agree on Hamonic!
Smith also with full marks. No riding off quietly into the sunset. Still got a thing or two to teach the kid.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by imeubu

I would suggest Hanifin for sure and then I see very important players like Gio and Anderson being played to death and ask why?

played to death?

you mean playing the regular amount of minutes that typical top defense pairings are played. Andersson is getting more time because the staff like his attention to detail over Kylington's at this point in time

Nothing more to it than that.

i like Kylington, and the only way i'd move him is in a deal for a guy like Stone, where you basically have to add a top prospect. But he isn't better than the top four defensemen Calgary is starting currently

i'm going to leave it at that.

[Samonadreau]

Took way to long to ban Gaudreauvertime. I am having dejavu here so mods please just do it. Why wait?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Took way to long to ban Gaudreauvertime. I am having dejavu here so mods please just do it. Why wait?

There's nothing wrong with being a fanboy of a prospect. Even if it's a family member who's obviously biased.

I've seen crazier claims about prospects by people who are still around... Markus Granlund making Mikael Backlund expendable, Mark Jankowski making Mikael Backlund expendable, Bill Arnold making Mikael Backlund expendable, Dillon Dube making Mikael Backlund expendable... man.... as a fanbase we sure do wanna make Backlund expendable.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Also Brodie.