[News] Tentative Agreement Reached! New Arena!

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

CSEC will be granted the option to acquire land (Enoch Sales house) from CMLC in the Rivers District based on the value prior to creation of the event committee. This option will expire when CSEC moves in to the event centre.

CSEC will be granted the option to acquire bus barn land if the city makes it available for development. Value is current value price and this option will expire 10 years after CSEC moves in to the event centre.

Are they referring to the CT bus barns lands in Ramsay or the Greyhound bus depot area where Next was proposed?

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So Bus Depot Land = new Football Stadium or "Fieldhouse"?

More likely condos, restaurants, hotels, offices, casinos. CSEC wants the option to become a developer around the new event center.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So Bus Depot Land = new Football Stadium or "Fieldhouse"?

Doubt it.

If CSEC acquires the land they are going to develop it for profit by partnering with a developer.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Doubt it.

If CSEC acquires the land they are going to develop it for profit by partnering with a developer.

I believe you just got surelossed

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Are they referring to the CT bus barns lands in Ramsay or the Greyhound bus depot area where Next was proposed?

Victoria Park Bus Barns.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GGG

Not to derail this but the big 4 sport leagues all have the means to pay for their own venues. All of these venues make large profits for players and owners. The comparison to the library is ridiculous and has been argued to death.

Some of these venues make large profits.

And yes, as a taxpayer, it would be nice if the new facility was completely privately funded. One of the reasons this rarely happens though is that stadia depreciate in value faster than a new car driven off the lot. Smart businessmen will find other people willing to eat as much of that cost as possible.

The arena is still a gathering place for the public. It's still something that helps improve civic pride, etc. All things that have as much financial value as crap like "character" has on a hockey stat sheet. We all know this. But we still all benefit from it. Personally, I literally do not care that a couple billionaires and a couple dozen millionaires also benefit.

[ricosuave]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/com...rena_official/

THE NEW DEAL:

$550 Million Cost - 50/50 Spilt ($275M/$275M)
City ROI Generation - $400M return expected on $275M investment, Facility Fee/Ticket Surcharge ($155M), % of Naming Rights ($2.5 Mill over 10 Years)
City contributes $15.4 Million in addition for Saddledome demolition, land and transactional costs
CSEC commits to provide an additional $75 million in added funding for amateur sports organizations
City owns arena, land and surrounding area
0% tax increase, no increase to Municipal Property Tax
No impact to the 2019 business tax relief program
Flames stay for 35 years minimum
Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation solely responsible for all operating, maintenance and repair costs, other than major structural repairs.
Compared to the original deal proposed by the City:

$555 Million Cost - 33/33/33 Spilt
33% City Contribution ($130M Cash, $30M Land, $25M Saddledome Demolition)
33% Flames Ownership ($185M Cash)
33% Users ($185M via Ticket Surcharge)
Flames own arena and get 100% of Revenue, Flames stay for 35 years minimum, City gets Property Tax

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I believe you just got surelossed

[Reggie Dunlop]

[GullFoss]

The event center is economic if the city is large enough. So in large cities, they are built privately and people want to own sports teams to be anchor tenants for their profitable facilities.

Example: Suppose you can do NBA 50 nights per year and NHL 50 nights per year and A+++ concerts 150 nights per year. Then the event center is super economic - probably need 4 million people plus to make that work. And it only applies to Hockey/Basketball stadiums.

Now compare that to Calgary. It's not big enough of a city to be economic. It doesnt have an NBA team and even with a tier 1 facility, it won't attract 4 nights of taylor swift or the Biebs. Hence why it needs a subsidy.

What the City has done is participated in the upside. If in 10 years Calgary grows to 4 million people and the event center is super profitable...the city and flames both win because ticket surcharges go up and theres more events on which to charge the tax. So more revenue from the events.

[Reggie Dunlop]

It's almost too bad that the bus barns area couldn't be reclaimed as parkland, being as it's next to the river.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

It's almost too bad that the bus barns area couldn't be reclaimed as parkland, being as it's next to the river.

Further to that, it’s a shame they couldn’t use the land right across 9th ave from the Music Centre and east of the enmax heating centre, along the tracks...

[Jordan!]

Pretty lame if they replace a building as distinguishable as the Saddledome with a very boring rectangle of a building

[GGG]

The Edmonton Deal
https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_...agreement.aspx

I think it’s fair to include the Winter Garden and the Land cost in the totals when comparing to Calgary. And ticket tax is considered a Oilers contribution.

Total cost 565 million
Oilers payment 288 million
Edmonton 277 million

So Calgary appears to beat Edmonton by about 100 million by extracting a share of the ticket tax.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

It's almost too bad that the bus barns area couldn't be reclaimed as parkland, being as it's next to the river.

Its also a shame that the CSEC doesn't own more land around the event center so they could have participated in even more of the upside of building the facility. The biggest winners are the private developers that own land around the new event center but will contribute $0 towards.

There should have been a Community Revitalisation Levy in place. Is there one?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Further to that, it’s a shame they couldn’t use the land right across 9th ave from the Music Centre and east of the enmax heating centre, along the tracks...

For the events center?

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

For the events center?

Yeah,it’s not far from the proposed location

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Its also a shame that the CSEC doesn't own more land around the event center so they could have participated in even more of the upside of building the facility. The biggest winners are the private developers that own land around the new event center but will contribute $0 towards.

There should have been a Community Revitalisation Levy in place. Is there one?

There is. To the estimated tune of $138.7 return over the life of the CRL.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Yeah,it’s not far from the proposed location

That property isn’t of adequate size north-south.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Pretty lame if they replace a building as distinguishable as the Saddledome with a very boring rectangle of a building

I don't think it’s boring, I’m glad they are going away from space ship designs.