Children on Public Transit

[Locke]

Children should be Public Transit.

We want Green Energy and Healthier lives? Lash a few dozen children to the front of a Bus and make them pull!

Mush!

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Out of interest, how many of you have kids that responded in this thread. If so, what are their ages, etc.

I have issues with the LRT stations and kids that need to stop at one, get transferred, etc. Nothing good ever happens at an LRT station.

I am more than confident my kids could handle the city bus, but not as keen on them handling the people that hangout at LRT stations.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

My kids are between 9 and 11.

I hear what you're saying about LRT stations. No doubt there are unsavoury people who hang out there. And the trains themselves at night feel less safe than they did 20 years ago. But I don't know what exactly you'd be afraid of sketchy people at stations doing to kids during the day, when there are all kinds of people around.

Getting accustomed to being in the presence of dirtbags and weirdos is an urban life skill. We can't protect kids from it their whole lives. Better they learn to be comfortable and streetwise when they're 12 or 13 than shelter them so they're totally freaked out the first time they see someone muttering to themselves in a hoody when they're 20.

I used to work with someone who moved to Calgary from small town Newfoundland when she was around 30. She was absolutely horrified by homeless people, and almost had a panic attack whenever someone sketchy came within 20 feet of her. She would never take public transportation, or walk around anywhere downtown except a few major streets during the day. When she saw a dude drinking a tallboy in the park down the street from her house in the far burbs, she called the cops.

I don't want my kids to be raised with that kind of fear, to restrict where and when they go out so they never come into contact with anyone but other middle-class suburbanites.

I was going to start a post on the topic of children and the freedom their given after some family visits this summer. We had relatives with their own kids staying with us so we had a housefull of kids at times.

It was crazy to see how little some kids are allowed to do on their own. By not letting your child venture out on his own you are preventing them from learning many life skills. One big one is risk assessment. Your child is either going to become a young adult and then an adult that is in fear eveything as the person described above or they are not going to be able to recognize risk and not be able to avoid bad scenarioa and be overtrusting.

Real life problem solving is another skill you develop by experience.

Its crazy the extremes things have gone to. I was a free range kid. I grew up in a north american city bigger than Calgary. By 12 I was taking transit or riding my bike all over town. I also had a paper route and my own money at that age, which could be a whole different thread about kids today. I learned a lot in those adventures and gained skills about assessing risk, dealing with people, and solving problems that have served me well as an adult. Things are different today so my childrens' childhood is different than mine but we try to give our kids freedom and have them make decisions and take risks on their own. I watched an interview on local news with a mother and her 12 yearold son and he was afraid to take the transit bus to school. I feel sorry for this child because he has likely never left his house without a parent or guardian so of course he bow has a fear of taking a bus on his own, even if its just to and from school during daylight hours.

As for the parent posting worried about their children and the people they may encounter at LRT stations, your children are more likely exposed to much worse people online than theyll ever be at an LRT station.

[You Need a Thneed]

You don't have to send kids to the train station to see "undesirables" all by themself for the first time. Presumably, they have been with you on transit and seen those types of people, where they have asked questions about them, and you've talked to your kids about that.

You don't send kids out to experience things by themselves for the first time. You send kids out to do things by themselves, that they have previously been with you to do.

[transplant99]

Not a word of a lie but when I went to kindergarten, I took public transit.

Now, this was in Lethbridge and the actual ride was maybe about 20-25 blocks or so and all on the same road. My caregiver while my mom was working would walk me to and pick me up from the stop. I was 5.

This also created a bit of a panic one time when i fell asleep on the bus near the back and didnt get off at my stop. Bus driver didn't see me as i was leaned over and when he looked in the mirror, there was no one on the bus. Police were called and all that stuff but after about 45 minutes i was noticed by another passenger and reunited with one freaked out mother shortly there after.

In Calgary i never once was on a yellow school bus other than taking trips to play sports at another school or field trips. It was always public transit when it was required to get to or fro.

[Jacks]

When I was about 9 or 10 I used to go downtown all the time on the weekends. Me and a friend would take the bus, if we could scrounge up the bus fare, otherwise we'd just walk or ride bikes. People are afraid of everything these days.

Kids can't ride the bus to school? seriously?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not a word of a lie but when I went to kindergarten, I took public transit.

Now, this was in Lethbridge and the actual ride was maybe about 20-25 blocks or so and all on the same road. My caregiver while my mom was working would walk me to and pick me up from the stop. I was 5.

This also created a bit of a panic one time when i fell asleep on the bus near the back and didnt get off at my stop. Bus driver didn't see me as i was leaned over and when he looked in the mirror, there was no one on the bus. Police were called and all that stuff but after about 45 minutes i was noticed by another passenger and reunited with one freaked out mother shortly there after.

In Calgary i never once was on a yellow school bus other than taking trips to play sports at another school or field trips. It was always public transit when it was required to get to or fro.

That's nothing. I took the bus home from the hospital as a newborn.

[Corral]

If you've been on the CTrain or at a station later in the evening regularly over the past several years in Calgary - you will agree with me that you would NEVER want one of your kids on that service anytime it isn't absolutely necessary for some reason or another. I've seen some pretty nasty characters on those trains and it chills me to the bone to think of anyone in my family being anywhere near them in a confined space like that. No thanks.

Its those moments when it is very clear that Calgary is not the place it was 20 or 30 years ago when others here say they rode transit on their own as youth.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GGG

It's a different much safer world in terms of threats to children.

That just isn't true at all.

The world is generally a much safer place today than it was 15-20 years ago and that especially extends to Canada. I wish the statistics were out there, but I would be willing to bet it extends even more so to children.

For better and worse, society has moved to goal posts on what an acceptable level of risk is, and what level of harm we will tolerate. Its a line every parent sees in a different place, and struggles with the idea that they might have misplaced.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../c-g01-eng.gif

[WhiteTiger]

Some folks just aren't content helicopter parenting their own kids, they have to do it to other parents kids, too.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

It was crazy to see how little some kids are allowed to do on their own. By not letting your child venture out on his own you are preventing them from learning many life skills. One big one is risk assessment. Your child is either going to become a young adult and then an adult that is in fear eveything as the person described above or they are not going to be able to recognize risk and not be able to avoid bad scenarioa and be overtrusting.

Real life problem solving is another skill you develop by experience.

This. So much this. This is something I have been noticing become increasingly VERY apparently in my line of work (Yes, this is purely anecdotal, I understand that). But it's something that is very clearly becoming a thing, and a problematical thing, at that.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by #-3

That just isn't true at all.

The world is generally a much safer place today than it was 15-20 years ago and that especially extends to Canada. I wish the statistics were out there, but I would be willing to bet it extends even more so to children.

For better and worse, society has moved to goal posts on what an acceptable level of risk is, and what level of harm we will tolerate. Its a line every parent sees in a different place, and struggles with the idea that they might have misplaced.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../c-g01-eng.gif

I'm pretty sure you agree with ggg. He said the world is safer now than it was before, which seems to be your point as well.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Corral

If you've been on the CTrain or at a station later in the evening regularly over the past several years in Calgary - you will agree with me that you would NEVER want one of your kids on that service anytime it isn't absolutely necessary for some reason or another. I've seen some pretty nasty characters on those trains and it chills me to the bone to think of anyone in my family being anywhere near them in a confined space like that. No thanks.

Its those moments when it is very clear that Calgary is not the place it was 20 or 30 years ago when others here say they rode transit on their own as youth.

There were homeless, beggars, drunks and people having conversations with themselves 30 years ago. The only difference I see today is that people are afraid to get involved if someone is being harassed. I can't see people standing by while a child is being harassed/threatened/accosted but who knows I guess.

Are there any statistics on children being harmed at transit stops or on transit vehicles?

Besides, we are talking about taking transit during the daytime not late at night.

[Corral]

If you've ever actually been threatened or stared down by an odd duck on the train or at a station - or even worse followed into the parking lot - I highly doubt you would be advocating for this as a life skill experience that one of your kids should enjoy. Just saying.

[Jacks]

Are you talking about during the day?
There are more wackos late at night but I have a hard time believing anyone, especially little kids getting off the bus in front of a school, need to be afraid for their safety during the day.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Corral

If you've been on the CTrain or at a station later in the evening regularly over the past several years in Calgary - you will agree with me that you would NEVER want one of your kids on that service anytime it isn't absolutely necessary for some reason or another. I've seen some pretty nasty characters on those trains and it chills me to the bone to think of anyone in my family being anywhere near them in a confined space like that. No thanks.

Its those moments when it is very clear that Calgary is not the place it was 20 or 30 years ago when others here say they rode transit on their own as youth.

Seriously? How bad can it be?

I have not lived in Calgary since 2003, but I did live in Europe for three years with my wife and kids, and have travelled to most major cities there. I honestly never worried about my kids (ages 7–13 at the time) riding buses and trains anywhere we were living or visiting while overseas—not in Oslo, Manchester, Berlin, or practically anywhere else. I find it hard to imagine that Calgary is now so very different.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Jacks

There were homeless, beggars, drunks and people having conversations with themselves 30 years ago. The only difference I see today is that people are afraid to get involved if someone is being harassed. I can't see people standing by while a child is being harassed/threatened/accosted but who knows I guess.

Are there any statistics on children being harmed at transit stops or on transit vehicles?

Besides, we are talking about taking transit during the daytime not late at night.

I've been riding the ctrains for 25 years, and I have seen a huge increase in wierdos on these trains - day and night - but yes more at night for sure. People are very very reluctant to get involved until there is almost violence - prior to that moment - the stares gestures or even talking goes unchecked and most just shuffle in their seats uncomfortably and would just bury their eyes and ears into their iPhone.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Seriously? How bad can it be?

I have not lived in Calgary since 2003, but I did live in Europe for three years with my wife and kids, and have travelled to most major cities there. I honestly never worried about my kids (ages 7–13 at the time) riding buses and trains anywhere we were living or visiting while overseas—not in Oslo, Manchester, Berlin, or practically anywhere else. I find it hard to imagine that Calgary is now so very different.

outside of rush hours - the trains in Calgary are not very busy on any day - especially at the far ends of the lines away from downtown - I have ridden a few trains in urban centres in Germany and France - and in my experience the ridership there was a lot more mainstream lets say - not mainly the less fortunate, elderly, or youth - which is frankly what it is here in Calgary - so I can understand how it would feel different.

I didn't feel this way until just the last couple years - probably has something to do with the downturn in the economy - there are a lot more down and outers roaming about this place these days in specific spots - like Ctrains and the stations.

[Csquared]

While there has been an increase in weird people on the train the last couple years, it's still pretty safe especially in the daytime. Whenever there is a ctrain disruption I have also seen people checking on kids travelling alone to make sure they know where to go.

I found there was a lot more weird people on the train and surrounding the train station in most parts of Europe I travelled to.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Corral

If you've ever actually been threatened or stared down by an odd duck on the train or at a station - or even worse followed into the parking lot - I highly doubt you would be advocating for this as a life skill experience that one of your kids should enjoy. Just saying.

This thread was started because parents are afraid to let their kids take the bus to school. No one advocating for children to take the c-train at night. But if you dont let a child to take the bus to school because of fear, how are they ever going to be able to take the ctrain at night? How will they cope with moving away at 18 for university if theyre scared to take transit?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by #-3

The world is generally a much safer place today than it was 15-20 years ago and that especially extends to Canada. I wish the statistics were out there, but I would be willing to bet it extends even more so to children.

Here you go.

http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/

(U.S. statistics, but also links to Canadian statistics)

Originally Posted by #-3

For better and worse, society has moved to goal posts on what an acceptable level of risk is, and what level of harm we will tolerate. Its a line every parent sees in a different place, and struggles with the idea that they might have misplaced.

As a society, through the media and a generalized anxiety around parenting, we've vastly over-estimated the threats to children out in public. We're just not very good at assessing risk in general, and have become pathologically anxious around child-rearing.

And as I noted up-thread, we haven't factored in the risks to our children's health (physical and especially mental) of not being given freedom. The lack of exercise. The lack of opportunities for free play and developing problem-solving skills without adults around. The lack of resilience that overcoming small discomforts and problems builds in children.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I have not lived in Calgary since 2003, but I did live in Europe for three years with my wife and kids, and have travelled to most major cities there. I honestly never worried about my kids (ages 7–13 at the time) riding buses and trains anywhere we were living or visiting while overseas—not in Oslo, Manchester, Berlin, or practically anywhere else. I find it hard to imagine that Calgary is now so very different.

I have to agree with Corral on this one. The C-Train has changed. After 8 or 9 pm, you get some real menacing characters on the train. People I would avoid making any eye contact with. And unlike Europe, outside of commuting hours you do not get any regular citizens on the train. You get the poor - recent immigrant poor, teen poor, elderly poor. On the times I've been on the train later at night in the last few years, I've estimated that I would be the only person who would intervene in any way if something bad went down. It's the kind of vibe where you know if someone got sexually harassed or stabbed, none of the other 8 or 9 people in the car would lift a finger.