Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 05-12-2021, 03:28 PM   #21
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
Sure would be nice if the West would quit funding apartheid.
Thanks for the drive by slander swipe comment.
Care to comment on things you clearly understand, like quantum physics or the meaning of Salvador Dali's artwork.

Apartheid - a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.

No such policy exists in Israel. Any Israeli citizen, regardless of religion, gender, sexuality, or race can go to the beach, own a business, own a home, run for elected office, become a supreme court judge, etc. Non-Jewish Israelis (Palestinians, Druze, Christians, etc.) have served as Ministers in government, Hospital Directors, Ambassadors, Army Officers among other positions.

There is only one exception - No Temple Mount access for JEWS.
A Jew can be arrested, detained, or fined for whispering a prayer on the temple mount.

In the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority it is a law in the books that selling your home, farm, acreage (for any amount of money) is a capital crime - death without trail.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bleeding Red For This Useful Post:
Old 05-12-2021, 03:33 PM   #22
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis View Post
Netanyahu's corruption trial resumed this week, surely just a coincidence a massive distraction comes along at the exact same time.

He was also about to lose government. His opponents were given the option to try to form a majority and they were close to a coalition.


Also noteworthy - Abbas delayed the Palestinian elections, which according to polls he was about to lose. He is currently serving year 10 or 11 in his four-year term.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:37 PM   #23
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Here is an article on the Lease issue in Jerusalem -


Article


The author is a law professor attached to Israeli and US universities.
Yes, it is from Israel Hayom (a right wing, Adelson funded paper. Full disclosure).

But we shouldn't be getting all our news from Al-Jazeera.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:40 PM   #24
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Red View Post
Thanks for the drive by slander swipe comment.
Care to comment on things you clearly understand, like quantum physics or the meaning of Salvador Dali's artwork.

Apartheid - a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.

No such policy exists in Israel. Any Israeli citizen, regardless of religion, gender, sexuality, or race can go to the beach, own a business, own a home, run for elected office, become a supreme court judge, etc. Non-Jewish Israelis (Palestinians, Druze, Christians, etc.) have served as Ministers in government, Hospital Directors, Ambassadors, Army Officers among other positions.

There is only one exception - No Temple Mount access for JEWS.
A Jew can be arrested, detained, or fined for whispering a prayer on the temple mount.

In the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority it is a law in the books that selling your home, farm, acreage (for any amount of money) is a capital crime - death without trail.
Maybe you should have caught your own advice about speaking on what you clearly understand on this one, since you clearly don't:

Quote:
Across these areas and in most aspects of life, Israeli authorities methodically privilege Jewish Israelis and discriminate against Palestinians. Laws, policies, and statements by leading Israeli officials make plain that the objective of maintaining Jewish Israeli control over demographics, political power, and land has long guided government policy. In pursuit of this goal, authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated Palestinians by virtue of their identity to varying degrees of intensity. In certain areas, as described in this report, these deprivations are so severe that they amount to the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/2...nd-persecution

Quote:
Discrimination against Palestinians occurs in many fields. Moreover, the 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid appears to be violated by many practices, particularly those denying freedom of movement to Palestinians.
https://undocs.org/A/HRC/4/17
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:44 PM   #25
_Q_
#1 Goaltender
 
_Q_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Red View Post
Thanks for the drive by slander swipe comment.
Care to comment on things you clearly understand, like quantum physics or the meaning of Salvador Dali's artwork.

Apartheid - a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.

No such policy exists in Israel. Any Israeli citizen, regardless of religion, gender, sexuality, or race can go to the beach, own a business, own a home, run for elected office, become a supreme court judge, etc. Non-Jewish Israelis (Palestinians, Druze, Christians, etc.) have served as Ministers in government, Hospital Directors, Ambassadors, Army Officers among other positions.

There is only one exception - No Temple Mount access for JEWS.
A Jew can be arrested, detained, or fined for whispering a prayer on the temple mount.

In the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority it is a law in the books that selling your home, farm, acreage (for any amount of money) is a capital crime - death without trail.
Therein lies the problem.

It is impossible for a Palestinian from the West Bank or Gaza to become an Israeli citizen.

Yes, the way the system is currently designed, based on your definition is absolutely an apartheid.
_Q_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:45 PM   #26
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belsarius View Post
When you strip a person of everything, from possessions to the simple dignity of life, what do you leave them? The only option for a people so oppressed is either violence or let themselves be destroyed.

Apparently you leave them a shopping mall - Associated Press



If Hamas redirected funds from artillery, tunnels, and their personal Swiss bank accounts, life would probably a lot different in Gaza.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:50 PM   #27
Jeff Lebowski
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Exp:
Default

Jeff Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:56 PM   #28
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_ View Post
Therein lies the problem.
It is impossible for a Palestinian from the West Bank or Gaza to become an Israeli citizen.
Yes, the way the system is currently designed, based on your definition is absolutely an apartheid.

So, that's a no on the two-state solution then.

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza become citizens of Palestine - thanks Oslo Accords.

A Palestinian from Nablus is not an Israeli citizen, just like the guy from Buffalo, NY, is not a Canadian citizen. I cannot run for public office in the USA because I am not a US citizen.

That being said - Israel does make provisions for reuniting family (elderly parents with children) also Palestinians living in Jerusalem (technically West Bank for some here) have been offered Israeli citizenship. Most refuse. it.

Last edited by Bleeding Red; 05-12-2021 at 03:59 PM.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:03 PM   #29
_Q_
#1 Goaltender
 
_Q_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Red View Post
So, that's a no on the two-state solution then.


Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza become citizens of Palestine - thanks Oslo Accords.



A Palestinian from Nablus is not an Israeli citizen, just like the guy from Buffalo, NY, is not a Canadian citizen. I cannot run for public office in the USA because I am not a US citizen.



That being said - Israel does make provisions for reuniting family (elderly parents with children) also Palestinians living in Jerusalem (technically West Bank for some here) have been offered Israeli citizenship. Most refuse. it.
Well first, if a guy from Buffalo, NY has one parent or grand parent from London, ON, then yes they can automatically claim Canadian citizenship. If that same Palestinian from Nablus has roots in Haifa, Israel, they would have no claim to Israeli citizenship.

Second, Canada doesn't demolish homes in upstate New York, to build Canadian only homes or control access to Buffalo, via Canadian only highways.
_Q_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:05 PM   #30
Jeff Lebowski
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Whenever Israel is accused of being undemocratic or being an Apartheid state, one of the main counter-arguments used by its advocates is that everyone in Israel is politically equal. They’ll often cite examples of “Arab” judges or members of Knesset to reinforce their point. We have specifically discussed the issue of Apartheid more thoroughly in [This article], and while they are connected, the goal of this article is to inspect the narrower claim that every Israeli citizen is equal.

While such a claim is very attractive to defenders of Israel, how realistic is it?

At first glance it does seem that all citizens in Israel enjoy the same rights, they can all vote, for example, among many other rights granted by citizenship. However, after a more thorough look it becomes clear that this talking point is only held together by the omission of one very important fact:

Israel distinguishes between citizenship and nationality.

What does this mean?

For example, you can be a citizen of Israel but be a Druze national, or a Jewish national. Your nationality is determined by your ethnicity and it cannot be changed or challenged. But how is this relevant to the original question being discussed?

It is relevant because many of the rights you are accorded in Israel stem from your nationality not your citizenship. Meaning an “Arab” Israeli citizen and a Jewish Israeli citizen, while both citizens, enjoy different rights and privileges determined by their “nationality”. Seeing how Israel is an ethnocracy it is not a mystery who this system privileges and who it discriminates against [You can read more about this here].

This is not merely discrimination in practice, but discrimination by law. Adalah have composed a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavor non-Jewish Israelis. For example, the Law of Return and Absentees’ Property Law are but two examples of flagrant racism and discrimination in the Israeli legal system [You can read more about this here].

This is not some old, odd oversight, but a very deliberate part of the design of Israeli society. This is periodically reinforced whenever some Israelis petition the Supreme Court to recognize an Israeli nationality that does not discriminate based on ethnicity. A recent example of these petitions was in 2013, where the Supreme Court rejected such an idea on the grounds that it would “undermine Israel’s Jewishness“.

It says quite a lot about Israel that a unifying egalitarian identity not based around ethnicity would “pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people“, as the court ruled. The fact that such discrimination is seen as a cornerstone of Israeli society only reinforces its colonial ethnocratic nature, and undermines any claims to equality among citizens.
https://decolonizepalestine.com/myths/
Jeff Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:20 PM   #31
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

Found some "unbiased" (wink-wink) sources I see.


I can do that too:


Myth of Israeli Aparthied


Quote:
Apartheid” was the official South African policy that sought to maintain a complete political and social separation between South Africa’s whites and blacks. Under this policy, South African blacks were not permitted:
  • To eat in white restaurants or cafes;
  • To attend white schools or universities;
  • To be treated in white hospitals;
  • To live in white neighborhoods;
  • To serve in the white government or judiciary.
Anyone who has ever been to Israel knows the minute they get off the plane that no such segregation exists in Israel.
Israel’s Arab citizens are full citizens. They attend of all Israel’s major universities. They are treated in all of Israel’s hospitals. They serve in government and the judiciary. They are welcome in all of Israel’s restaurants and cafés.
Because the claim that Israel is an apartheid country is so patently false, many BDSers are too embarrassed to say it. They argue instead that apartheid exists between Israel proper – where Jews and Arabs live as full equals – and the West Bank and Gaza, where the Palestinian residents are not Israeli citizens.
It’s true that West Bank and Gaza Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. But here is an important point to note – they don’t want to be Israeli citizens. Some Palestinians would like to destroy Israel. Others are be prepared to live in a Palestinian state alongside Israel. But no serious Palestinian leader has ever asked that the West Bank or Gaza be annexed by Israel.
Thus the answer is not for Israel to annex the West Bank and Gaza and extend Israeli citizenship to their residents. The entire Arab world would angrily reject this. The answer is for both sides to reach a peace deal. Israel has repeatedly offered to do exactly this. Unfortunately, the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected these offers.

Video


Quote:
MYTH"Israel has long sought to deny residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip their political rights."
FACT
While defending its existence against hostile Arab forces, Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Facing a violent insurrection, Israel has been forced to restrict some activities of Palestinians. Israel cannot concede to Palestinians all the rights Americans take for granted in a nation that is not at war, while Arab states maintain a state of belligerency with Israel, and Palestinians engage in terrorism against Israelis.
Given the constraints of Israel's security requirements, efforts were made from the outset to allow Palestinians the greatest possible freedom. After the Six-Day War, the traditional pro-Jordanian leadership continued to hold many civil service positions and was paid by Jordan. Municipal elections were held in 1972 and 1976. For the first time, women and non-landowners were allowed to vote.
The 1976 election brought Arab mayors to power who represented various PLO factions. Muhammad Milhem of Halhoul, Fahd Kawasmeh of Hebron, and Bassam Shaka of Nablus were affiliated with Fatah. Karim Khalaf of Ramallah represented the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Ibrahim Tawil of El-Bireh was associated with the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine.4
In 1978, these mayors and other radicals formed the National Guidance Committee, which vigorously opposed any accommodation with Israel, attempted to stir up broad allegiance to the PLO on the West Bank and incited rejection of the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty. In 1981, Israel expelled Milhem and Kawasmeh. They were allowed to return to appeal the expulsion order, but it was upheld by the Israeli Supreme Court.
Two weeks after his expulsion, Milhem said: "There is no room for the existence of the Zionists under a situation of true peace. They are only capable of existing in a situation of tension and war...and that goes for all the parties...[they are] neither doves nor hawks, only pigs."5
Kawasmeh was appointed to the PLO Executive Committee in 1984. Later that year, he was assassinated by Palestinian radicals in Amman.
As part of the Camp David negotiations, Israel proposed an autonomy plan to grant the Palestinians greater control over their affairs. The Palestinians rejected autonomy as an option, however, holding out hope for the creation of a Palestinian state.
For the rest of the decade, Israel, nevertheless, attempted to shift increasing responsibilities from the military to civilian administrators and to Palestinians. Efforts to give Palestinians greater responsibility for their affairs were undermined by the intifada. During the uprising, Palestinian Arabs who wished to cooperate with Israel came under attack and were silenced either through intimidation or murder. Israeli government officials sought to maintain a dialogue with many Palestinians, but those whose identities were discovered became targets.
In secret negotiations in Oslo, Norway, in 1993, Israeli and Palestinian negotiators agreed to a plan that would give the latter limited self-government. Subsequent negotiations have resulted in Israeli withdrawal from nearly half the West Bank and most of the Gaza Strip, and increasing Palestinian control over their own affairs. The Palestinian Authority now governs virtually all civil affairs for approximately 98 percent of the Palestinians in the territories. The expectation is that a final political settlement will result in the creation of a Palestinian state in most of the areas once controlled by Israel.
.


LINK
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:25 PM   #32
Manhattanboy
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2004
Exp:
Default

I have often wondered two things:

1. Was Arafat really ever honest/sincere about permanent peace with Israel? Was he really willing to accept a two state solution?
2. Where would the region be today if Yitzhak Rabin had not been assassinated? I do believe the old IDF general Rabin and Shimon Peres really did want peace and were willing to live side by side with an independent Palestine. I recall they had grand plans for a free trade zone between Israel and Palestine that included the construction of an elevated freeway across the Negev Desert that would connect the West Bank and Gaza.
Manhattanboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:31 PM   #33
Zevo
First Line Centre
 
Zevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Exp:
Default

On a more personal note my daughter and her family and in laws live in a fairly safe area about 45 minutes north of Tel Aviv. They(and we) don't worry too much about the rockets hitting there...yet.

Sadly she does have to go to Tel Aviv for work sometimes and yesterday spent a couple of hours in a bomb shelter. That has us freaked out a bit.
Zevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:38 PM   #34
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattanboy View Post
I have often wondered two things:

1. Was Arafat really ever honest/sincere about permanent peace with Israel? Was he really willing to accept a two state solution?
2. Where would the region be today if Yitzhak Rabin had not been assassinated? I do believe the old IDF general Rabin and Shimon Peres really did want peace and were willing to live side by side with an independent Palestine. I recall they had grand plans for a free trade zone between Israel and Palestine that included the construction of an elevated freeway across the Negev Desert that would connect the West Bank and Gaza.

On #2 - I think we would be closer to peace if not for Rabin's Assassination. It's interesting that all Israel's peace deals were signed by so-called Hawks - Begin, Rabin, Netanyahu. Rabin would have been able to control Sharon and prevent him for ascending the Temple Mount and giving Arafat a reason to start the second intifada.

On #1 - I think Arafat was never interested in peace. Ending the conflict would have ended his reason d'etre. I always recall an event where I heard Bill Clinton speak. He felt after all the back and forth that he had a deal, he told Arafat it was a great deal. Arafat left negotiations without so much as a no thank you or good-bye. He blames Arafat for the Camp David failure.

Maybe Arafat knew that if he ever agreed to any deal he would suffer the same fate as Sadat & Rabin. hard to make a deal with a target on your back.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:44 PM   #35
Bleeding Red
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo View Post
On a more personal note my daughter and her family and in laws live in a fairly safe area about 45 minutes north of Tel Aviv. They(and we) don't worry too much about the rockets hitting there...yet.

Sadly she does have to go to Tel Aviv for work sometimes and yesterday spent a couple of hours in a bomb shelter. That has us freaked out a bit.
I heard from cousins outside Jerusalem - they know where the shelter is but have yet to need it. Still waiting to hear from a friend in Ashkelon.

I spent an hour in a bomb shelter in the Galilee - one of those "see what it's like for us" tours. It was a long time ago and not pleasant (stuffy, hot, cramped). I can't imagine what it's like with the sirens wailing.
Bleeding Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:48 PM   #36
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattanboy View Post
I have often wondered two things:

1. Was Arafat really ever honest/sincere about permanent peace with Israel? Was he really willing to accept a two state solution?
2. Where would the region be today if Yitzhak Rabin had not been assassinated? I do believe the old IDF general Rabin and Shimon Peres really did want peace and were willing to live side by side with an independent Palestine. I recall they had grand plans for a free trade zone between Israel and Palestine that included the construction of an elevated freeway across the Negev Desert that would connect the West Bank and Gaza.
It's an interesting point. There was definitely many parties on both sides dedicated to a false peace. Whereby they would use the peace process as stepping stone towards further conflict.

I do believe that at one point, the people in power in Israel genuinely wanted a fair two state solution. A lot of that may have been based on a far of the "demographic bomb", whereby Palestinians would become the majority. I also do not think Arafat, for the same reasoning, was ever committed to a two-state solution.

What's really changed in Israel is that the demographic bomb never came into being. The Jewish birth rate outpaces the Arab one now. The Palestinians also horribly exaggerated their population numbers. Now, it looks like the opposite is the more likely scenario, where Jews will come to outnumber Arabs in Israel and the West Bank. Without this external demographic pressure, the Israeli hawks have zero pressure to go back to the table.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 04:54 PM   #37
Jeff Lebowski
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
This Is Ours – And This, Too : Israel’s Settlement Policy in the West Bank



Summary of joint report with Kerem Navot, March 2021

The State of Israel is enforcing a regime of Jewish supremacy in the entire area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. The fact that the West Bank has not been formally annexed does not stop Israel from treating it as if it were its own territory, particularly when it comes to the massive resources Israel invests in developing settlements and establishing infrastructure to serve their residents. This policy has enabled the establishment of more than 280 settlements and outposts now populated by more than 440,000 Israeli citizens (excluding East Jerusalem). Thanks to this policy, more than two million dunams [1 dunam = 1,000 square meters] of Palestinian land have been stolen, by official and unofficial means; the West Bank is crisscrossed with roads linking the settlements to one another and to Israel’s sovereign territory, west of the Green Line; and the area is dotted with Israeli industrial zones. All these have transformed the geography of the West Bank beyond recognition over the decades.
https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid

Quote:
Apartheid Minisite
Divide, separate, rule
MapIn the entire area between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, the Israeli regime implements laws, practices and state violence designed to cement the supremacy of one group – Jews – over another – Palestinians. A key method in pursuing this goal is engineering space differently for each group.

Jewish citizens live as though the entire area were a single space (excluding the Gaza Strip). The Green Line means next to nothing for them: whether they live west of it, within Israel’s sovereign territory, or east of it, in settlements not formally annexed to Israel, is irrelevant to their rights or status.

Where Palestinians live, on the other hand, is crucial. The Israeli regime has divided the area into several units that it defines and governs differently, according Palestinians different rights in each. This division is relevant to Palestinians only. The geographic space, which is contiguous for Jews, is a fragmented mosaic for Palestinians
https://www.btselem.org/publications...s_is_apartheid

Quote:
B'Tselem (Hebrew: בצלם‎, IPA: [beˈtselem], "in the image of [God]") is a Jerusalem-based non-profit organization whose stated goals are to document human rights violations in the Israeli-occupied territories, combat denial of the existence of such violations, and help to create a human rights culture in Israel.[1] Its executive director is Hagai El-Ad.[2] B'Tselem also maintains a presence in Washington, D.C., known as B'Tselem USA. B'Tselem has provoked sharp reactions within Israel, ranging from harsh criticism to strong praise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B'Tselem

Israeli Human Rights Group B'Tselem states Israel is apartheid state earlier this March.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/b...-time-n1253863
Jeff Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 05:04 PM   #38
Zevo
First Line Centre
 
Zevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Red View Post
I heard from cousins outside Jerusalem - they know where the shelter is but have yet to need it. Still waiting to hear from a friend in Ashkelon.

I spent an hour in a bomb shelter in the Galilee - one of those "see what it's like for us" tours. It was a long time ago and not pleasant (stuffy, hot, cramped). I can't imagine what it's like with the sirens wailing.
Ya she said it was pretty surreal. She's born and raised on Vancouver Island but has been there for 12+ years now. Our first trip there was pretty eye opening, not at all what we expected.
Zevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 05:17 PM   #39
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envitro View Post
To begin with, that CTV article with a brief summary of the most recent 75-year conflict is a fairly one-sided piece, IMHO.

As a full disclaimer, I am in general a supporter of Israel's right to exist.

However, right now, the evictions are a problem and should never have been started. I'd love to know the reasoning behind it (apart from aggression and land-grabbing).

On the other hand, as bad as Israel's actions are (i.e. evictions, busting up the sit-in at Al-Aqsa with riot police), and I am against them, what did Hamas and friends think the response was going to be when they sent hundreds of rockets towards Tel Aviv?

Not sure how anybody wins here...
The reason is quite simple, Bibi' Netanyahu and Likud has maintained power by being the party seen as tough on the Arabs and best at protecting Israel, as such it is in his favour to keep the pot boiling so the voters will keep voting for him even though he is utterly corrupt and in danger of going to jail, this whole episode is because he is losing his political grip, Labour is trying to form a coalition to take power, this makes that harder, this is all on purpose in order to get Hamas to send rockets over and spark a full scale conflict, war is literally a get out of jail free card for Netanyahu.

As for Hamas pretty much see above, they remain in power because they are seen as tough on Israel, the war keeps them in power, everybody wins, well except for the handful of Israelis that are killed and the hundreds to thousands of Arabs.
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 05:25 PM   #40
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

If anyone is curious on the types of groups Netanyahu is courting for his attempt at a coalition government, and whether things will get worse or better in the near future:

Quote:
Appealing to New Hope chairman Gideon Sa'ar and Naftali Bennett, chairmen of New Hope and Yamina respectively, Smotrich appealed to them not to "throw your right-wing ideology away by joining the ranks of those who are inciting violence against Jews. We have to construct a strong, right-wing Jewish Zionist government that will reform the justice system, where we can bring together the whole country without security threats from both right and left. Put them [Arab lawmakers and the left] outside the border and reinforce that Jews will manage the Jewish state."

...

Earlier, Smotrich also called on police to shoot Palestinians who throw stones on Monday as clashes between Muslim worshippers and Jews continued in Jerusalem, in the latest round of the ongoing violence which has convulsed the country in recent weeks.

“Maybe if you understood that the stones are not thrown by themselves but that there are terrorists who throw them, and these terrorists have a center of mass into which live fire can be directed, maybe then fewer stones will be thrown,” Smotrich wrote, in a tweet addressed to the Israel Police.

“But the truth is that the blame is not on the Israeli police but on a political echelon that has been castrating the defense and police system in the fight against the Arab enemy for years,”
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ints-1.9790298

Quote:
Rising to defend Eliyahu, Smotrich tweeted that “a true Muslim needs to know that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people, and over time Arabs like you who don’t recognize that will not remain here. Rabbi Shmuel and his multitude of followers, us among them, will make sure of that.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotri...t-jewish-rule/

Quote:
An attorney who has defended Israeli settlers implicated in violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, Ben-Gvir was convicted in 2007 of inciting racism after holding signs at a protest reading “Expel the Arab enemy”.

Until last year he kept a photo in his living room of Baruch Goldstein, an American-Israeli settler who in 1994 shot dead 29 Palestinians in Hebron as they held morning prayers.

His party, Jewish Power, is formed of ideological successors to Meir Kahane, a US-born rabbi who served one term in Israel’s parliament in 1984 before his Kach party was banned. Kahane advocated for a Jewish theocracy, the expulsion of Palestinians and a ban on marriage between Jews and Arabs.

Years earlier, having set up the militant Jewish Defense League, he was imprisoned for bomb-making in the US. Kahane was assassinated in 1990 by an Egyptian-born American gunman. The FBI regards the Jewish Defense League as a rightwing terrorist group after two members attempted to bomb a California mosque.

Ben-Gvir has claimed that Jewish Power is “not a continuation” of Kahane’s ideology but has said he considered the man “a holy saint who fought wars for the people of Israel and was killed sanctifying God’s name”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...els-parliament

Quote:
With anti-LGBT party Noam set to send a representative into the Knesset for the first time through the Religious Zionism party, Channel 12 on Wednesday aired recordings of the party’s spiritual leader, Rabbi Tsvi Tau, speaking out against the gay community and expressing hope of gaining a foothold in the Israeli parliament.

The recordings, made in the weeks leading up to the election, include Tau telling followers that “these homosexuals, these perverts, are miserable people. We want the voice of truth and the voice of faith and the voice of Torah to sound [in the Knesset], and for someone there to cry out all the time… someone who will not rest until this thing is off the agenda.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/rabbi-...with-perverts/

Question anyone who tells you there are "good guys" and "bad guys" when discussing the Israeli government and Hamas.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:06 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021