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Old 04-20-2019, 11:37 AM   #41
dirk diggler
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Bennett needs to be given the chance to play with more skilled guys, he has earned that right. one of the few who will play a tough game and he has the skill, he will never be a big scorer but i like where he has taken his game
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:39 AM   #42
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Bennett needs to be given the chance to play with more skilled guys, he has earned that right. one of the few who will play a tough game and he has the skill, he will never be a big scorer but i like where he has taken his game
I agree. Even though he won't carry this team with his scoring, he'll create more space for the guys he plays with. It could be good for his confidence too if he starts to score just a little bit more as a result of playing top 6.
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:41 AM   #43
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I think Peters felt handcuffed because as gully and Tre have mentioned this group is mentally fragile. How do you get on guys and go tortz or sutter on them when their confidence is already shot.
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:50 AM   #44
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When I hear talk about toughness, I think of Don Cherry’s belligerence, but I agree that toughness is a that ability to fight through checks, and take a hit, but keep on ticking. For most of the season I saw the Flames doing that, but not as consistently in the last month or so. But our top line lacked something beyond toughness for the last part of the season as well as the playoffs. And in the playoffs, I still think it was more the Avs’ speed and skill that won the puck battles along the boards in the Flames’ end, and left our defence unsure of themselves, rather than the hitting.
This core played 4 series together. Won once versus a terrible team that was very soft and had a bad coach.
The other series were blowouts.
Anaheim and Colorado played us tough. We had no answer.

This team has plenty of skill and speed. But very little grit.
No mystery to me why they get dummied by bigger teams.

And again, it's not about roughing and hitting. It's about ability to out muscle a guy in a fight for the puck. Monahan last night had that one play where he just simply lost a 50-50 battle because the other guy was stronger. Mid ice battle for a loose puck. We don't win those.
Our top line is the softest in the nhl. And they were supposedly one of the best in the NHL. So why are we ignoring their lack of grit and questioning their speed and skill? We know they can play fast and skillfully. Has anyone seen them play tough?

Our 4th line has 3 guys with 10+G on the year. That's one of the most productive 4th lines right? Are we really gonna question their skill and ignore that 2 of those guys are some of the smallest and softest players in the NHL?

Our second line has a PPG player and Backs who is good as well. But again, outside of Tkachuk, these guys can't win a board battle or go to the net with ease.

This team is super soft and no amount of skill will make up for it. Johnny is one of the best wingers in the league. But he can't win a board battle with a 6'3 D man. A guy like Maroon could though. A much less skilled player.playoffs is about winning battles. A good team needs a combination of both, skill and grit. We have skill, but no grit.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #45
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #46
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I think the series was decided somewhere between Games 2 and 3.

Game one was weird. Low intensity, both teams kind of in a feel it out sort of mode. Felt like a January game.

Game 2, the Avs largely outplayed the Flames but came down to overtime. Avs got the split and all of a sudden we have a series.

At that point the gears should have shifted. More intensity, more battle, more everything. The Avs did it. But the Flames stayed in first gear and got stuck there.

The Avs were off to the races and the Flames had no answer whatsoever. It was kind of shocking.

Was it mental? Are these guys that fragile?

I honestly don't think Gaudreau is the problem. But he did arrive too late.

Monahan to me is an enigma. 2 years ago he was very good against a more physical Anaheim team. He has limitations in his foot speed, but his battle level is not what it should be for a guy his size.

Aside from maybe Gaudreau, the Flames don't have any truly elite forwards. That transcend their physical limitations. So the structure and depth have to win out. Backlund is an elite 3rd line centre but average to below average 2nd line centre. He was outmatched with the McKinnon assignment. Tkachuk is potentially elite below the hashmarks but his foot speed gives him limitations.

Maybe they look at big changes. Maybe Monahan quietly gets shopped. I don't know. Or perhaps with a management and coaching staff that should be relatively safe they look at ways to get the most out of the roster they have. There are some excellent pieces here.

Maybe a surplus defenseman is shopped for a top flight winger. Maybe the new first line centre is Lindholm, which can slot Monahan to #2 and Backlund to number 3.

Gaudreau -Lindholm-Tkachuk
Bennett-Monahan-????

I think Neal gets a do-over. You're not moving that contract. Take the whole summer, reflect and decide how you can adapt your game and commitment. If he's awful again, deal with it next summer. Again, you're not moving that contract.

Its been said here, but it was touched on in a Hockey News article as well. For Monahan, Gaudreau has been a blessing and a curse. When he came into the league, he was billed as a bit of a different player than what we are seeing. He has become in many ways, one dimensional. I think his game can be rebuilt on the fly. Get him away from Gaudreau and develop his 2way game and his playmaking.

The playoffs are where it counts but you can't dismiss a 107 point season. You don't do a mini rebuild after a 107 point season. Aside from some tweaks and making room for young players, this core and roster will likely remain intact.

I will be disappointing if things are largely the same by October. Same lines, same everything. This is a shocking upset. Not because they lost, but because of how they lost.

I hope the front office and coaching staff dig deep to find out just what went wrong and what the fix is.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:34 PM   #47
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I thought I'd jot some things down, I put it in my own thread whether its cool or not.


first I want to preface this with the old . . . I'm not drunk as I'm writing this. But I'm going to get a few things off of my chest or mind or whatever.
Always appreciate your thoughtful posts.

Here are my random thoughts:

I'm still in shock/disbelief that the Flames are out. This doesn't seem real. We are probably feeling the same as the TB and PIT fans right now.

Did the series really end with the save on Frolik in OT in game 2?

Top 6 were largely invisible, but Johnny sure gave it his all last night.

All season the concern seemed to be goaltending. In the end that the team ended up wasting some of the best goaltending the team has seen in years. Hopefully Smitty has one more year left in the tank.

The fourth line was fantastic all year. Derek Ryan looked like an awful signing early on, only to become absolutely invaluable down the stretch.

I'm not smart enough to suggest any off season moves, but there are some guys in Stockton who will need(or have earned) jobs on the big club next season. That's going to mean some of the vets will need to be moved.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:05 PM   #48
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I want to quit being a fan. Of any team. I'm getting too old to go through the up's and downs and disappointment. It comes with being a fan of any team. I hate it. I don't handle it well. I want to be done.

I still love hockey. I enjoy watching playoff hockey more when it isn't my own team playing. I just enjoy watching the competition. That said, I hate unfairness and the officiating is so poor that it always creates an unfair advantage for one team or another. Intentional or not, it does. That ruins some of my enjoyment.

Now here is my problem. The Flames are my first true love. I've been a fan since I was a little boy and they moved to Calgary. How can I quit the Flames after nearly 40 years? It's hard to. It's the only thing I know. It leaves me conflicted.

It's hard.
100% how I feel as well.

I am so bitter right now, I didn't answer phone calls this morning from guys I knew were calling to discuss.

Things that really did stand out for me positively (e.g. super-fast and super-productive 1st line, super-reliable 2nd line, smart fluid coaching) during regular season have turned out so unbelievably negative during playoffs, it's just disheartening. All of it: 1st line - no show, 2nd line - no show, Giordano-Brodie - no impact, Peters - just a helpless kitten. I'll leave Neal alone, he was very consistent for the entire season and the playoffs.

Bright spots:

Hamonic - the guy is all heart. I wonder if there was one part of his body left without a bruise from blocked shots. What a selfless player! Future captain material.
Lindholm - true grit shown during playoffs, the little guy was throwing some impressive hits and was contributing anywhere Peters would put him; no coasting.
Hathaway - answering the doubters' question with no doubts remaining, he's a bona-fide NHL'er, a must-have player on any team.

Negatives:
Too many to mention and everyone is already mentioning them in threads.

What to look forward to in the next season?
1st line needs a big, mean, skilled player, like Benn, Malkin, Radulov, Stone etc. All this noise about the "game changing" and "size doesn't matter anymore" crap... It does f..n' matter. This is and will be a very physical game. You need to be able to play well against big strong guys to have any hope of winning.

Honestly, I don't know how Treliving can fix things up with Neal's contract hanging around his neck, with Tkachuk's contract extension pending and with no starting goaltender on the roster. No idea. There has got to be some magical horse-trading, so we are going to see some subtractions and some giveaways in picks and prospects...


For now, we are into another obscure off-season...
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:09 PM   #49
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Even though they one game, the Flames were easily the worst team in the playoffs, IMO. Hard to believe that happened after the regular season they had.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:55 PM   #50
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Even though they one game, the Flames were easily the worst team in the playoffs, IMO.
Your opinion is wrong. They didn’t play up to their abilities but how are they easily the worst team in the playoffs? Have you seen all the upsets so far this post season?
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:10 PM   #51
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Most disappointing playoff series in Flames history.
I don't know. 1990, 94, 95, 2006 are up there. Those teams were expected to succeed even before the regular season began, as I recall (certainly in 1990). If 2019 is the "most disappointing" because of the way they lost, then yeah, maybe it is.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:15 PM   #52
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Bennett needs to be given the chance to play with more skilled guys, he has earned that right. one of the few who will play a tough game and he has the skill, he will never be a big scorer but i like where he has taken his game
At the least he’s fast and mean and can cause turnovers for our top guys. Top 6 role is where he belongs now.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:28 PM   #53
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I don't know. 1990, 94, 95, 2006 are up there. Those teams were expected to succeed even before the regular season began, as I recall (certainly in 1990). If 2019 is the "most disappointing" because of the way they lost, then yeah, maybe it is.
How about winning the President’s Trophy in 1988, but getting swept by the hated Oilers in the second round (despite having won the regular season series against them)?

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Old 04-20-2019, 11:44 PM   #54
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I think the series was decided somewhere between Games 2 and 3.

Game one was weird. Low intensity, both teams kind of in a feel it out sort of mode. Felt like a January game.

Game 2, the Avs largely outplayed the Flames but came down to overtime. Avs got the split and all of a sudden we have a series.

At that point the gears should have shifted. More intensity, more battle, more everything. The Avs did it. But the Flames stayed in first gear and got stuck there.

The Avs were off to the races and the Flames had no answer whatsoever. It was kind of shocking.

Was it mental? Are these guys that fragile?

I honestly don't think Gaudreau is the problem. But he did arrive too late.

Monahan to me is an enigma. 2 years ago he was very good against a more physical Anaheim team. He has limitations in his foot speed, but his battle level is not what it should be for a guy his size.

Aside from maybe Gaudreau, the Flames don't have any truly elite forwards. That transcend their physical limitations. So the structure and depth have to win out. Backlund is an elite 3rd line centre but average to below average 2nd line centre. He was outmatched with the McKinnon assignment. Tkachuk is potentially elite below the hashmarks but his foot speed gives him limitations.

Maybe they look at big changes. Maybe Monahan quietly gets shopped. I don't know. Or perhaps with a management and coaching staff that should be relatively safe they look at ways to get the most out of the roster they have. There are some excellent pieces here.

Maybe a surplus defenseman is shopped for a top flight winger. Maybe the new first line centre is Lindholm, which can slot Monahan to #2 and Backlund to number 3.

Gaudreau -Lindholm-Tkachuk
Bennett-Monahan-????

I think Neal gets a do-over. You're not moving that contract. Take the whole summer, reflect and decide how you can adapt your game and commitment. If he's awful again, deal with it next summer. Again, you're not moving that contract.

Its been said here, but it was touched on in a Hockey News article as well. For Monahan, Gaudreau has been a blessing and a curse. When he came into the league, he was billed as a bit of a different player than what we are seeing. He has become in many ways, one dimensional. I think his game can be rebuilt on the fly. Get him away from Gaudreau and develop his 2way game and his playmaking.

The playoffs are where it counts but you can't dismiss a 107 point season. You don't do a mini rebuild after a 107 point season. Aside from some tweaks and making room for young players, this core and roster will likely remain intact.

I will be disappointing if things are largely the same by October. Same lines, same everything. This is a shocking upset. Not because they lost, but because of how they lost.

I hope the front office and coaching staff dig deep to find out just what went wrong and what the fix is.
Completely agree with the type of player Monny has become. When he came from the 67s, he was considered more of a playmaker than a sniper. Though he did have a heralded snap shot in junior still. However, his strength then was being able to protect the puck in the ozone, even along the boards. Because of this, he would draw defenders in and from there was able to find the open man with a great pass.

He was even known to have a great two way game and did very well in turnovers, which would lead to great transition. I know its junior, so the dynamics change in the big league, but he has certainly changed to a one dimensional player. Is it footspeed, possibly, as what he could get away with in Junior wont work here.

I wish he would have taken the Bo Horvat route. What I mean by that is Horvat was incredibly suspect in his skating when drafted. So for the next two summers, he would work with a skating instructor as a main skill enhancement. Skating is now not an issue with Bo, as its become one of his strengths. His footspeed and edge work is night and day than when he first came into the league.
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:47 PM   #55
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How about winning the Presidet’s Trophy in 1988, but getting swept by the hated Oilers in the second round (despite having won the regular season series against themo)?
Agreed. 1988 is the biggest disappointment in flames history. But it also serves as a reminder that good teams have to go through that to be great.
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:51 PM   #56
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I think the series was decided somewhere between Games 2 and 3.

Game one was weird. Low intensity, both teams kind of in a feel it out sort of mode. Felt like a January game.

Game 2, the Avs largely outplayed the Flames but came down to overtime. Avs got the split and all of a sudden we have a series.

At that point the gears should have shifted. More intensity, more battle, more everything. The Avs did it. But the Flames stayed in first gear and got stuck there.

The Avs were off to the races and the Flames had no answer whatsoever. It was kind of shocking.

Was it mental? Are these guys that fragile?

I honestly don't think Gaudreau is the problem. But he did arrive too late.

Monahan to me is an enigma. 2 years ago he was very good against a more physical Anaheim team. He has limitations in his foot speed, but his battle level is not what it should be for a guy his size.

Aside from maybe Gaudreau, the Flames don't have any truly elite forwards. That transcend their physical limitations. So the structure and depth have to win out. Backlund is an elite 3rd line centre but average to below average 2nd line centre. He was outmatched with the McKinnon assignment. Tkachuk is potentially elite below the hashmarks but his foot speed gives him limitations.

Maybe they look at big changes. Maybe Monahan quietly gets shopped. I don't know. Or perhaps with a management and coaching staff that should be relatively safe they look at ways to get the most out of the roster they have. There are some excellent pieces here.

Maybe a surplus defenseman is shopped for a top flight winger. Maybe the new first line centre is Lindholm, which can slot Monahan to #2 and Backlund to number 3.

Gaudreau -Lindholm-Tkachuk
Bennett-Monahan-????

I think Neal gets a do-over. You're not moving that contract. Take the whole summer, reflect and decide how you can adapt your game and commitment. If he's awful again, deal with it next summer. Again, you're not moving that contract.

Its been said here, but it was touched on in a Hockey News article as well. For Monahan, Gaudreau has been a blessing and a curse. When he came into the league, he was billed as a bit of a different player than what we are seeing. He has become in many ways, one dimensional. I think his game can be rebuilt on the fly. Get him away from Gaudreau and develop his 2way game and his playmaking.

The playoffs are where it counts but you can't dismiss a 107 point season. You don't do a mini rebuild after a 107 point season. Aside from some tweaks and making room for young players, this core and roster will likely remain intact.

I will be disappointing if things are largely the same by October. Same lines, same everything. This is a shocking upset. Not because they lost, but because of how they lost.

I hope the front office and coaching staff dig deep to find out just what went wrong and what the fix is.
Great post. Thanks.
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Old 04-21-2019, 12:18 AM   #57
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What to look forward to in the next season?
1st line needs a big, mean, skilled player, like Benn, Malkin, Radulov, Stone etc. All this noise about the "game changing" and "size doesn't matter anymore" crap... It does f..n' matter. This is and will be a very physical game. You need to be able to play well against big strong guys to have any hope of winning.


The funny thing about this is that the only playoff success we’ve had since 1989 has come on the back of physical players.

- Ferland and Engelland dominated the Canucks.
- Iginla and crew smashed their way through the opposition while Kipper played elite level hockey.

We see it every year come playoff time. Hell, it’s why we saw Bennett perform so well. People talked about trading away Bennett because he’s a bust, but really this team needs more of the type of player he is, not less.

Yeah you need balance - but we completely lack the required mixture of size and speed to create a successful balance.

How we address it this summer will be interesting. We have a lot of great pieces already here, we just need to compliment them accordingly. More speed, more size. Problem being of course that every team going into the off-season will have the same shopping list.

What we saw this year was the NHL clearly defining two game types. Regular season, and playoff hockey. The referees, as inconsistent as they are in the regular season due to their game management tactics, completely flip the script in the playoffs. They devalue pure skill through officiating, and it’s on Tree and the team to expect that.

The only player I want to see the Flames target in free agency is Matt Duchene. He brings speed and high level skill that would alter the makeup and depth of the team down the middle. Failing that, Tree is going to have to get creative on the trade front...which he tends to do anyways, so I’m already intrigued.

Standing pat, and expecting the players on this team to get 3 inches taller, 20 lbs heavier, and 10 strides quicker is too much of a reach in my opinion. Some players need to be said goodbye to, and I’d argue one more high level core piece needs to be added up front. Oh, and a goalie is needed as I’m not sure it’d be terribly wise to plan for Mike Smith to play at the same elite level in April 2020 that we just saw him play at this April.

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Old 04-21-2019, 07:18 AM   #58
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Even though they one game, the Flames were easily the worst team in the playoffs, IMO. Hard to believe that happened after the regular season they had.
Tampa was far worse.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:10 AM   #59
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This is two playoffs now that we've adorned Matthew with fanfare about how he's "made for the playoffs" and that his game is "built for the postseason".

He's been ####ing invisible again
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:35 AM   #60
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Yeah, that is troublesome about Tkachuk. I’m not sure if he is being told to dial down his schtick in the playoffs or not. If not, I’m curious if he is ailing more than we’ve previously heard about.
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