A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[nik-]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Are you guys prepared to see several of your heroes get swarmed by wights or impaled by white walker spears (or a worse fate to a giant or dragon), then come back?

Don't know if we are fully preparing ourselves for how dark episode 3 is going to be.

If it's going to be an 80 minute version of Hardhome at night with dragons, I'm in.

I legitimately want a white walker victory. It's what makes most sense.

I am ready for death.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

I legitimately want a white walker victory. It's what makes most sense.

I am ready for death.

Heres my problem: That seems like the most obvious solution.

So for people complaining about the Show writers not being true to GRRM's esteemed, unique, pristine and divine vision wouldnt this be a cop-out?

[nik-]

It's only the obvious decision from a "situation on the ground" perspective. A cop out, from a TV standpoint, is making the fans happy. I'm guessing most people want some of their characters to remain alive and be victorious.

[Fuzz]

Danny's dragons help to wipe out the white walkers, then turn and kill everyone. Then they sit awkwardly on the throne and grin. Roll credits.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's only the obvious decision from a "situation on the ground" perspective. A cop out, from a TV standpoint, is making the fans happy. I'm guessing most people want some of their characters to remain alive and be victorious.

So if making the fans happy is a cop out, then King George has to revert to type and kill everyone, but thats too obvious and so the purists will be unhappy.

[djsFlames]

Death predictions for the Battle of Winterfell?

Mine are:
Greyworm, Jamie Lannister, Beric Dondarion, Jorah Mormont, Bran Stark, Melisandre.

Could see one of Varys or Tormund getting it as well.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

I think Jamie will kill Cersei so I dont see him dying.

[Finger Cookin]

In terms of who lives and dies by the end - Theon and Yara and Euron are probably all done, right? End of the Greyjoys? I know Theon has had a rough time, but I still don't forgive him for "only playing the game" at Winterfell. I assume Yara is not gonna last with Euron, and Euron will probably get an appropriately "rockstar" kind of death.

The Starks have lost so so much, but I'm bracing myself for at least one of the four remaining to not make it. Well, three left I guess, with whatever Bran's deal is.

For the Lannisters, I'll be stunned if Cersei survives. I'll be surprised if Jamie survives. I'll be totally shocked if Tyrion *doesn't* survive.

Hoping Sam, Brienne, Pod, Sir Davos, and Sir Jorah all make it to the end, but the odds of all of them doing so are pretty long I suppose.

[Patek23]

I don’t think the TV will give us the cop out or untrue answer. Unless I’m imagining things I recall reading that Martin told the writers the way he intended it to end. And I’d imagine they will tie it into that.

[EldrickOnIce]

I don't think Martin has the tiniest clue how he intended it to end.

[CaptainCrunch]

Without reading any spoilers, I didn't watch this series, until I decided to try it out a few days ago, and started binge watching it. I'm on episode 8 of season one and I regret that I haven't been watching this show, its amazing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I don't think Martin has the tiniest clue how he intended it to end.

Based on all available evidence, the meandering story, new characters, strange swings, etc, I think its pretty clear that not only did he have no idea how it was going to end, he probably had little to no intention of ending it at all.

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Without reading any spoilers, I didn't watch this series, until I decided to try it out a few days ago, and started binge watching it. I'm on episode 8 of season one and I regret that I haven't been watching this show, its amazing.

It only gets better from here!! Be prepared for some truly emotional rollercoaster events. In a way, you're lucky to experience now without the 18 month wait we all had to endure until last Sunday

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I don't think Martin has the tiniest clue how he intended it to end.

His intended end is already bjorked. He's on record saying he intended for things to go a drastically different direction post-Red Wedding. Something like he wanted to jump the timeline 30-40 years, and deal with the 'kids' dealing with the mess that created. But his characters were too popular and he couldn't do it. So that's why it turned into such a mess post-RW.

He may have probably figured out where he wants it to go now, but it's not where he originally wanted it to go.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

His intended end is already bjorked. He's on record saying he intended for things to go a drastically different direction post-Red Wedding. Something like he wanted to jump the timeline 30-40 years, and deal with the 'kids' dealing with the mess that created. But his characters were too popular and he couldn't do it. So that's why it turned into such a mess post-RW.

He may have probably figured out where he wants it to go now, but it's not where he originally wanted it to go.

Yeah, this tells me that hes writing it by the seat of his pants if hes concerned about the popularity of his characters.

There is no great 'master plan.' There never was. George has been making it up as he goes along.

[CliffFletcher]

Martin has said all that he's not a writer who plans. He's a gardener, not an architect (in his own words). So yes, he makes it up as he goes along.

I'm not sure the popularity of his characters had anything to do with his change in plans. He was a fairly obscure writer for the first couple books, and wasn't active on the internet. And if you read the original outline he submitted to his publisher when he signed the deal for the book series, it was already discarded by halfway through Game of Thrones. He could hardly have known how popular the characters were before he had even published the first book.

The intended multi-year gap between books became an issue because he found he had to start the second book with pages and pages of awkward exposition to get the reader up to speed with what happened to dozens of characters over the last few years. That sort of structure is possible if you're a very disciplined writer who plots everything out in advance. Martin, by his own admissions, isn't.

So yes, he bit off more than he could chew. Not because of cynical reasons of popularity or money. He's just an undisciplined writer who tried to write an epic whose scope was beyond his grasp. Still, the first three books are excellent pieces of fiction.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Without reading any spoilers, I didn't watch this series, until I decided to try it out a few days ago, and started binge watching it. I'm on episode 8 of season one and I regret that I haven't been watching this show, its amazing.

So jealous... looking back, it’s a hell of a ride and I wish I could do it again not knowing what’s going to happen. The best part about this series is that stuff sure does happen.

[dammage79]

Ooooo episode 2 will be interesting with Jaimie standing in front of winterfell court.

[Ashartus]

Until recently, Martin was probably better known for his short fiction and television writing than his novels, so perhaps not surprising an epic of this scale got out of control for him.

[AltaGuy]

Fantasy fiction is full of authors whose ambition while building their world far outstripped their ability to place a coherent narrative within it. Tolkien, Sanderson, Jordan, Erikson, GRRM etc, etc - all have these massive worlds and many characters, yet have a tough time harnessing that into coherent stories. I enjoy most of it nonetheless!