Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[Split98]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don’t really get the hype for JP outside of his draft position. 9 points in 46 games is horrendous, even considering the “talent” around him. Edmonton has some of the suckiest RW depth in the league and still felt like freaking Alex Chiasson was a better fit for their one line capable of producing points.

He’s trending quickly towards Yakupov town, who at the time of being traded was worth a 3rd round pick. No way do I consider Bennett being of comparable value, even though he himself has failed to live up to his draft position.

And I sure as hell wouldn’t consider taking on that Lucic albatross just to get him.

I don't think many are salivating over the idea of JP, and I definitely don't think Treliving is taking on Lucic for a crack at what JP could be. Calgary is faced with Neal being an anchor on this team or last year being a very extended hiccup. Given how far off Neal was from being useful last year, it's safe to say they'd be open to anything that relieves them of James. But he's not an anchor yet - not until we see what an offseason of head down guilt-workouts results in. Last year was such an outlier for Neal it's tough to bet that he keeps being this terrible. Problem is, even if he improves he might not be our best RW option with his foot-speed.

An opportunity to rebuild another big RW whose problems clearly stem from poor development is a pretty tempting option vs. rolling the Neal Dice. Even if JP continues to be terrible, just relieving ourselves of the Neal risk could be worthwhile.

So if there's a trade at all, I don't think Tre is adding or taking on anything. Calgary is trading from a position of strength, and he's probably not giving Holland much credit for Neal's poor year last year. It's 'do you want a sharpshooting RW, or not' deal and JP is all Tre might want off the pile. Otherwise, Edmonton doesn't have what we need nor is anything they can offer an upgrade on 'rebound Neal'. A busted prospect for Neal looking to rebound from a rough year seems like a recipe for Edmonton to add TBH.

The biggest roadblock is affording Neal, as I doubt there's much more on the table for JP than Neal (if that's even an offer). Their team is such garbage that I can't even find a player or 2 that frees up $3-$4M that wouldn't be a downgrade on 2018-19 Neal.

[TheScorpion]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I get what you're saying, I'm not all that enamoured with JP and I watched a bunch of Oiler games last year because they're hilarious. But JP just doesn't think fast enough for the NHL game. He's got physical tools, but he can't use them, he's clueless about open spaces and positioning, and he's been playing pro hockey for 3 year, has been poor at the AHL and NHL level and isn't showing any progress.

Add to that we can't send him to the AHL if we do get him without risking losing him for nothing on top of that he's basically stated that its NHL or nothing for him.

Yeah, my only interest in him is validating any talk between the Flames/Oilers... and really wanting to see an Oilers prospect thrive here

I saw that mindless play too and thought that we're probably watching a kid that had enough long ago. Considering the team was a joke when he was drafted, this poor attitude could have even settled in before he played a game in the pylon. But I don't think this was the book on him (was it?), and as much as I'm not excited about it... I understand the mindset. It's tough to stay engaged and make the smart plays when it means nothing. You'd hope a pro is strong enough to put i an effort - but that's likely something he needs work on.

If the cost was Neal and we're waiving him this year... oh well. I think that if I'm right at all then a chance to play on a team that has a shot could pay dividends early. If he still isn't producing on the 3rd line, see ya. If we had that option with Neal I'd take it too

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

If it's the same Neal as this past season, I would rather have PoolParty-at least JP has some promise, is big, and can really skate. If the fact that Neal is missing out on his summer to work out and improve is true, and bears fruit, I'm not so sure.....

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

I'd rather have Puljujarvi at 1M than Neal at 5.7M. I'd rather have TheScorpion at 1M than Neal at 5.75M.

[Sandman]

I kinda think we forget the caliber of a prospect JP was before the Oilers destroyed him. He killed it at every level he played at. I remember watching him at the U-17s, and U-18s, not to mention the fact that he had 17pts in 7 WJC games-he was dominant. Now of course, pro hockey is much different than junior, but this kid had (has) serious talent to go along with size and speed. You can never say what went wrong when a prospect goes wrong, but I just have a feeling that he needs to get away from that team.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'd rather have Puljujarvi at 1M than Neal at 5.7M. I'd rather have TheScorpion at 1M than Neal at 5.75M.

Well, sign me up for that.

All I'm saying is... if it's Neal for Lucic and JP... I'm not so convinced that Neal wouldn't outscore both those players combined.

Neal scored at a 25-point pace last year in a historically unlucky season in terms of SH%. 5%.

Puljujarvi scored at a 16-point pace but still shot 8%

Lucic scored at a 21-point pace but shot over 8%

If Neal rebounds to even a 35/40-point guy with McD/Drai/RNH, Puljujarvi continues busting, and Lucic continues to decline... it could look ugly.

[Geeoff]

If Neal is anything like Brouwer, he'll probably be worse this year than last. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a rebound.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

If Neal rebounds to even a 35/40-point guy with McD/Drai/RNH, Puljujarvi continues busting, and Lucic continues to decline... it could look ugly.

Sure, but if Neal continues playing as he did and Puljujarvi meets half the expectations of him when he was drafted once away from Edmonton, then it would look ugly the otherway.

I've been burned too many times being the optimist. Reminds me too much of my "Brouwer was a 20-20 guy with three different teams before Calgary, he just needs to find his groove" thinking I had until he was bought out.

I think there's far far more examples of post-30 year olds having a bad season and end up declining than there are of post-30 year olds who have a single anomaly bad season.

I think Puljujarvi would be worth the risk even if he ultimately busts, he's still relatively young and has the right tools. Of course depends on the specifics of the trade but I'd be up for it.

[TheScorpion]

With Puljujarvi, I just see charts like this:



And this:



And I kinda squirm a little. There's barely anything there at all. He makes almost everyone worse and generates very little offensively.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

It’s just you. I’d rather have nothing than Neal.

Cap space is worth plenty.


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[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

I think it’s just you. The cap space alone would be worth it, in a hypothetical world where Edmonton makes that trade one-for-one.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have Neal than Puljujarvi. Is it just me?

Still drunk from stampede?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

With Puljujarvi, I just see charts like this:

And I kinda squirm a little. There's barely anything there at all. He makes almost everyone worse and generates very little offensively.

Yeah, but with Puljujarvi there's not much risk. If he sucks, you thank him and wish him well in Europe. He's not going to get a massive long-term handcuffing contract. Inversely, with the tools he has, he should be a top six forward in the making, get him away from that dumpster fire and he might be able to get back on track.

And again, dependent on the specifics of the trade. If it meant taking Lucic, his full contract, and a protection spot because of the NMC, well that tilts things significantly.

[TheScorpion]

I don't think there's any world where Edmonton makes that trade one-for-one. My post was based on the assumption that they threw in somebody like Russell to even out the salaries. My apologies, should have specified.

I just think JP is a bust who's really terrible in every situation.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Neal for Russell and Puljujarvi would be a major coup for the Flames in my opinion. I just don't see Edmonton being able to take on Neal without including Lucic.

Russell's only got two years left, but his last year see's him making 1.5M in actual salary, so I don't think he would be that hard to move next off-season - at least in comparison to Neal. A team is going to have to spend ~1M anyways on a popcorn eater, Russell provides some veteran qualities.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

If Neal is anything like Brouwer, he'll probably be worse this year than last. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a rebound.

Nothing in Neal's history shows he's anything like Brouwer. The only similarities is that they were both UFA signings.

Prior to signing in Calgary:

James Neal - 703 GP, 263 G, 232 A, 495 PTS

Troy Brouwer - 613GP, 150 G, 144 A, 294 PTS

Hell, even when we had Troy Brouwer we had a coach dumb enough to continue forcing him onto PP1 - even in his 2nd season! James Neal did not get that same opportunity (rightfully so) thanks to us actually employing a competent coach that rewarded production/penalized lack of production.

[btimbit]

Just a gigantic NO to any deal from Edmonton that doesn't include one of the 3 guys they wouldn't trade anyway

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Nothing in Neal's history shows he's anything like Brouwer. The only similarities is that they were both UFA signings.

Both UFA signings who immediately faltered based on their expectations.

Brouwer had seven straight seasons of 17+ goals. Over those seven seasons he was pro-rated to score 22 goals. Everyone expected him to be a 20-20-40 guy for the Flames based on his past success his previous seasons and he sucked phenomenally. He followed up a bad season with an even worse season before being bought out.

The only reason to expect Neal to produce next year is because of his past seasons prior to joining the Flames- just like Brouwer. There was nothing in Neal's play last year to expect him to be anything but a healthy scratch except his pay cheque...and even that didn't save him during the most important game of the season. The only reason to expect Neal to bounce back is because of his seasons prior to joining the Flames, and the couple goals more he would have scored with a 'career average' shot percentage wouldn't have saved his terrible season.