2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'd be fine with adding ROR if we're pushing Bennett to the wing (probably on the 3rd line)... AND still addressing the RW issue.

If all we did was add ROR and go into next year with the same RWs then that would be a failed offseason.

'If' we're pushing Bennett to the wing? I think the ship has sailed on that one...

Brodie & Jankowski for RoR & a pick.

Gaudreu Monahan Ferland
Tkachuck RoR Brouwer/Foo/acquisition
Bennett Backlund Frolik

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'd be fine with adding ROR if we're pushing Bennett to the wing (probably on the 3rd line)... AND still addressing the RW issue.

If all we did was add ROR and go into next year with the same RWs then that would be a failed offseason.

Amen.

Here are all the players to play (41+ games played) in the RW position for the Flames in the last 10 seasons (2007-08 to 2017-2018) ranked according to points amassed in that time:

Jarome Iginla - 215G 249A - 464 pts (Has been gone for 5 full seasons)
Jiri Hudler - 68G 124A - 192 pts (Has been gone for 2 full seasons)
Rene Bourque - 88G 76A - 164 pts (Has been gone for 6 full seasons)
David Moss - 61G 63A - 124 pts (Has been gone for 6 full seasons)
Michael Frolik - 42G 59A - 101 pts
Joe Colborne - 37G 63A - 100 pts
Micheal Ferland - 42G 47A - 89 pts
Lee Stempniak - 31G 52A - 83 pts (Has been gone for 3 full seasons)
David Jones - 32G 30A - 62 pts (Has been gone for 2 full seasons)
Troy Brouwer - 19G 28A - 47 pts
Kris Versteeg - 18G 27A - 45 pts
Todd Bertuzzi - 15G 29A - 44 pts (Has been gone for 9 full seasons)
Josh Jooris - 16G 21A - 37 pts
Tim Jackman - 13G 23A - 36 pts
Owen Nolan - 16G 16A - 32 pts
Tom Kostopolus - 11G 15A - 26 pts
Alex Chiasson - 12G 12A - 24 pts
Blake Comeau - 9G 13A -
Garnet Hathaway - 5G 16A - 21 pts
Brian McGrattan - 8G 7A - 15 pts
Curtis Lazar - 3G 12A - 15 pts
Ales Kotalik - 7G 13A - 22 pts
Kevin Westgarth - 4G 3A - 7 pts
Blair Jones - 3G 4A - 7 pts
Brandon Prust - 2G 5A - 7 pts
Jamel Mayers - 1G 5A - 6 pts
Eric Goddard - 1G 2A - 3 pts

Take it for what you will, but our right wing has been least developed and weakest position on this team for the observable last 10 years.

Fun fact there are only 3 players on this list drafted by the Flames!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TOfan

'If' we're pushing Bennett to the wing? I think the ship has sailed on that one...

Brodie & Jankowski for RoR & a pick.

Gaudreu Monahan Ferland
Tkachuck RoR Brouwer/Foo/acquisition
Bennett Backlund Frolik

That is f'n terrible! Bennett is only 21, he just needs confidence and the right coach to push him. Jankowski looked great this year and is just starting to develop into an NHL talent. With his size and hockey IQ he has serious upside. We would lose this trade and lose it badly!
Janko is actually on my untouchable list, I would not be surprised if 2 years from now he is our #1 C.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

That is f'n terrible! Bennett is only 21, he just needs confidence and the right coach to push him. Jankowski looked great this year and is just starting to develop into an NHL talent. With his size and hockey IQ he has serious upside. We would lose this trade and lose it badly!
Janko is actually on my untouchable list, I would not be surprised if 2 years from now he is our #1 C.

Well I am braindead, I got Brodie mistaken for Bennett. Still wouldn't do it, swap Bennett and Janko and I would consider that.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well I am braindead, I got Brodie mistaken for Bennett. Still wouldn't do it, swap Bennett and Janko and I would consider that.

I'm not sure how you could possibly have Janko on your untouchable list. I'm not even convinced that he has more value than Bennett at this point.

Janko just got 25 points in 72 games during his 23 year old season.

Bennett won't be playing his 23 year old season for another 2 years. I think Jankowski is a useful player and can still improve, but the odds of him becoming a first line center are not good.

[Roof-Daddy]

Brodie, Janko, Fox for ROR, McCabe
Brodie, Janko, Fox for ROR, Nylander

Flames fans probably #### on me for this proposal.
Sabres fans probably also #### on me for this proposal.

Probably makes it close to realistic value wise.

I probably ask for $750k retained on ROR too, just for the optics (Johnny/Gio max cap hit) but it's not make or break.

Id also be willing to sub Bennett in for Janko in either proposal.

In the one with McCabe as part of the return I would also look to move Stone for some picks if possible, so as to make a spot on the right side for Rasmus.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Take it for what you will, but our right wing has been least developed and weakest position on this team for the observable last 10 years.

Fun fact there are only 3 players on this list drafted by the Flames!

Last decade we used to constantly discuss the lack of top shelf center for Iginla but guys like Conroy and Langkow weren't exactly chopped liver. RW has been a total graveyard in comparison.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, I wish we had more players who racked up powerplay points. We'd probably be watching Flames playoff hockey right now instead of waiting for an entry draft with no significant picks to mull over.

The point of this discussion is not to say that PP points have no value.

But when comparing players based simply on points accumulated, it's important to consider when player A is outscoring player B simply because he's accumulating more PP points.

Now, if player A is getting a ton of PP points because he's magic in that situation, that's very valuable. But if he has only, say, 10 more points simply based on PP time, he's likely less valuable because he squandering that valuable PP time (even though he actually has 10 more points).

[Dajazz]

ROR makes a lot of sense if we can deal Brodie and prospect.

It'll push down Backlund & Frolik to third.

It'll anchor a second line.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by bax

I'm not sure how you could possibly have Janko on your untouchable list. I'm not even convinced that he has more value than Bennett at this point.

Janko just got 25 points in 72 games during his 23 year old season.

Bennett won't be playing his 23 year old season for another 2 years. I think Jankowski is a useful player and can still improve, but the odds of him becoming a first line center are not good.

6'4" 200+lb Center. Tied for 5th in team goals, top 10 in NHL rookie goals.
And why compare seasons by age?
Bennett's 23 year old season will be his 6th full NHL season, where as Jankowski's was his 1st.

Jankowski proved to be a reliable 2 way player, who can play in all situations, and provide offense, all while playing with bottom 6 players who struggled greatly to provide offense, Bennett included.

Will Jankowski grow to be a ppg 1st line center? I don't believe so. Can he be a 60 point 2 way center, who plays in the top 6. I believe so. Depending on the style of game played by the team, that could make him your number 1 (ala Patrice Bergeron, who has never put up a ppg season in the NHL in fact averages just under 60pts/season), or your number 2.

Considering it was his rookie season, I'd say he's close to untouchable, as it's way, way, way to early to move this player just because he entered the league later than a CHL drafted player.

[bax]

Originally Posted by wretched34

6'4" 200+lb Center. Tied for 5th in team goals, top 10 in NHL rookie goals.
And why compare seasons by age?
Bennett's 23 year old season will be his 6th full NHL season, where as Jankowski's was his 1st.

Jankowski proved to be a reliable 2 way player, who can play in all situations, and provide offense, all while playing with bottom 6 players who struggled greatly to provide offense, Bennett included.

Will Jankowski grow to be a ppg 1st line center? I don't believe so. Can he be a 60 point 2 way center, who plays in the top 6. I believe so. Depending on the style of game played by the team, that could make him your number 1 (ala Patrice Bergeron, who has never put up a ppg season in the NHL in fact averages just under 60pts/season), or your number 2.

Considering it was his rookie season, I'd say he's close to untouchable, as it's way, way, way to early to move this player just because he entered the league later than a CHL drafted player.

I'm not ready to move on from Jankowski either, but it is highly unlikely that he continues to develop to the point where he is a first line center. Are there any other examples of a player breaking into the league at 23 and then a few years later becoming a top line player? I'ts fair to compare age vs season for young players because it highlights where they are on a development cycle.

Patrice Bergeron is also known as the very best defensive center of this era. That isn't a fair comparison for Janko at all.

Janko had spurts where he provided strong two way play, but there were also many points in the season where he faded and became invisible. Why does Jankowski get the benefit of "providing offense" while playing with bottom six players and Bennett doesn't? They finished with nearly identical point totals.

Top 10 in goals for NHL rookies, sounds nice but nearly everybody ahead of him on that list is significantly younger than him. It just isn't very often a player develops into a stud when they are that old already.

Again, I like Janko and think he is a useful player, but he is far from untouchable. That designation is reserved for players like Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

ROR makes a lot of sense if we can deal Brodie and prospect.

It'll push down Backlund & Frolik to third.

It'll anchor a second line.

Brodie and Backlund for ROR and Reinhart

Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk ROR Reinhart
Bennett Jankowski Frolik
Lazar Shore Dube/Brouwer
Hathaway

Gio Hamilton
Kulak Hamonic
Andersson Stone
Valimaki?
I'd give Valimaki

[Flamenspiel]

I don't see the need to trade away what little offence we have for poor returns. I think they need to stick to a basics like removing Brower(Buy out) and looking to trade a defensemen(not Hamilton) or two for a top 6 forward. Certainly not the younger ones like MT, JG, Monahan, Jankowski and Bennett.

You could perhaps consider Frolic or Backlund if the right offer came along.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Certainly not the younger ones like KT, JG, Monahan, Jankowski and Bennett.

Who's KT? Getting Matthew confused with his dad or am I forgetting someone obvious?

[dammage79]

Get ROR, get Kapanen, Find another RW like Elias Lindholm. Revamped top six.

Janko-Bennett grow together some more, keep frolik with them

Move Ferland to Shore and Hathaway line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Who's KT? Getting Matthew confused with his dad or am I forgetting someone obvious?

Kyle Turris? After some sort of trade?

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by bax

I'm not ready to move on from Jankowski either, but it is highly unlikely that he continues to develop to the point where he is a first line center. Are there any other examples of a player breaking into the league at 23 and then a few years later becoming a top line player? I'ts fair to compare age vs season for young players because it highlights where they are on a development cycle.

Patrice Bergeron is also known as the very best defensive center of this era. That isn't a fair comparison for Janko at all.

Janko had spurts where he provided strong two way play, but there were also many points in the season where he faded and became invisible. Why does Jankowski get the benefit of "providing offense" while playing with bottom six players and Bennett doesn't? They finished with nearly identical point totals.

Top 10 in goals for NHL rookies, sounds nice but nearly everybody ahead of him on that list is significantly younger than him. It just isn't very often a player develops into a stud when they are that old already.

Again, I like Janko and think he is a useful player, but he is far from untouchable. That designation is reserved for players like Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

The vast majority of Rookies provide spurts where they shine, and others where they are invisible. I give Jankowski the benefit of the doubt because he is a rookie, playing at center, and driving the play. Bennett had multiple opportunities on the top lines, and you're right, they finished with nearly identical stats.

There is a long list of players who continue to develop beyond age 23, and put up career highs much later in their careers. It's uncommon for stud players to enter the league at older ages, not uncommon to develop into a stud player as they age.

William Karlsson comes to mind.
Rookie season age 23, 9 goals, 11 assists.
This season, age 25, 43 goals, 35 assists.

I don't think "Untouchable" should be placed on a name, it should be placed on the value of the player in the role.

Can we replace what Gaudreau or Tkachuk bring to the team vis FA or trade? likely not, so they are untouchable.
Can you easliy replace a big strong rookie center, who's proven he can play a solid 2 way game? You could with a veteran, but is it wise to replace young, cheap players with more potential, for older more expensive players who will decline sooner?
Jankowski is exactly the type of player the Flames need over the next 5-10 seasons.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Brodie and Backlund for ROR and Reinhart

Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk ROR Reinhart
Bennett Jankowski Frolik
Lazar Shore Dube/Brouwer
Hathaway

Gio Hamilton
Kulak Hamonic
Andersson Stone
Valimaki?
I'd give Valimaki

Backlund has a no move for the first 3 yrs of his contract. He ain't gonna go to Buffalo.

[Dan403]

Trading Janko is dumb.

D-U-M-B.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Backlund has a no move for the first 3 yrs of his contract. He ain't gonna go to Buffalo.

Backlund has a full-NTC for the first 3 years, not a full-NMC. Also, it kicks in on July 1st 2018 - so he can be traded anytime before then without his consent.