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Old 12-04-2023, 10:18 PM   #1
Mathgod
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Question Digital Certificate - Help Needed

A member of my family wants to sell property (land) she owns in Portugal, but can't sign off on the paperwork because she's living here, and it would be too disruptive for her to fly there to sign it in person. Hence, she needs to get a power of attorney to give someone over there permission to sign off on the sale on her behalf. But here's the problem.

https://portaldascomunidades.mne.gov...ro/procuracoes

The nearest Portugal Consolate office in Canada is in Vancouver. Going physically to Vancouver is also a no-go.

So what are the options available? According to this page:

https://www.procuracoesonline.pt/Pro...P_input.action

Apparently a digital certificate is needed. And apparently it has to be from an "accredited certifying entity".

We're very new to all this and have no idea how any of it works. What's the best, affordable option out there to get a digital certificate, how does it work, and how can we be sure that she doesn't spend hundreds of dollars on something that won't even work? And how can she be sure that the PoA will only give the person the power to sell the land over there, and not do anything else in her name?

There's an additional problem, which is that she knows almost nobody in the city where the land is to be sold. There is one person she knows that might agree to sell on her behalf, but if he refuses, there's no one else to ask. This seems like quite a mess!!

Any help on this matter would be tremendously appreciated.
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Old 12-05-2023, 01:37 PM   #2
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There's not enough information to know for sure.

You may need to talk to and engage a lawyer where your family member(s) live and potentially get them to liaison with the lawyer over there for the sale. This is a complex situation with multiple legal and tax jurisdictions. Don't take the scenario lightly.

Basically what you're probably going to need to do is that you need a lawyer to legally sort things out on this side and a Portugal lawyer to sort things out on the other side. Your family member might be able to do a limited and temporary POA to the lawyer solely for the purposes of consummating and wrapping up the deal, but contact lawyers and see if someone can help you or point you in the right direction. Definitely get quotes prior to choosing a lawyer. Maybe Troutman can help point you in the right direction or give you an idea how much to expect on quotes?

Depending on what the lawyer tells you, even if it's disruptive, it may be less disruptive than the alternatives available. This including the risks involved with those alternatives you might try (don't try them). Don't skimp out on something like this. Trying to save $1-2 thousand dollars could bite you in the ass to the tune of 10-100X that if something gets really messed up. Think of the lawyer fees in this case also as insurance to make sure the deal is done properly and that other legal risks are minimized. Besides, the lawyer fees are deductible as an outlay on the sale of the property when your family member files taxes.

Adobe sign and Docusign are digital signature options that are recognized by many places, but the reality of the situation is that your family's member's issue is not digital signature related. It's a legal issue and risk that you want an expert dealing with.
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Old 12-07-2023, 05:52 PM   #3
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Well articulated DoubleF!!
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Old 12-16-2023, 11:39 AM   #4
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Having sold a property in Hungary for a family member before, I recommend that you take DoubleF's advice.

My experience can be divided into two distinct phases: before I found my nerdy Hungarian attorney, and after. Early on, it was extremely frustrating trying to translate documents, search for pretty much anything, let alone understanding it. Even the process of finding the lawyer was difficult. Some of the more reputable-appearing law offices in Budapest were very poor at replying to initial inquiries.

Finally, I contacted someone at the Hungarian consulate here in Calgary for some suggestions, who referred me to a Calgary-based Hungarian lawyer, who then referred me to a multilingual Hungary-based lawyer who he had worked with before. He was based in some small town outside of Budapest, his website looked like it was hosted on Geocities, and his tinted glasses were not worn ironically. But he knew what he was doing and got the job done, and I never would've found him (or even considered him) if I hadn't received a local recommendation.

So my advice would be to contact the Portuguese consulate/embassy, or call a Portuguese cultural association in Calgary or somewhere in Canada and see if they have any recommendations on finding a lawyer in Portugal. I know that the Italian Cultural Centre here in Calgary, at which I am a member, has an "Honourary Consul of Italy" guy that does appointments every so often for some of the basic signing stuff locally. The Portuguese folks might have something similar. If Calgary doesn't have a very active community, Toronto surely will.

Or, in short, your search for help may be more fruitful if you start locally. But definitely get help.
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