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Old 06-06-2023, 02:49 PM   #1961
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I see we’re now at the point where arena spending is being compared to healthcare.
Full circulation in effect.
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Old 06-06-2023, 02:50 PM   #1962
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"Educate People".

Come on, this is silly. There are a lot of health things that come up and need attention in a day or two. Having family doctors tell you "cool, I've got you in 4 weeks from now" is exactly the problem. Previously, there used to be capacity to drop in for the more pressing stuff.

Some people overflowing emergency are idiots for sure, but we have nothing in place to filter the idiots.

Things like swabbing for strep at pharmacies (education should be part of this, people need to know it exists) are fantastic and we should look to expand on the use of pharmacists, nurse practitioners and maybe actually address the family doctor shortage some time soon.
Yeah. My kid gets croup if he gets a bad cold. It's happened 3 times in his life, and every time a steroid prescription solved the issue. But it gets really bad, to the point where he can't breathe, which is pretty scary as a parent.

The third time was last weekend. Family doc says come in 2 weeks. Untreated there's a non-zero chance he'd be dead by then. Waiting until his lips turn blue to go the ER doesn't seem like the right choice either.

Actually ended up getting a prescription (same meds as last time) from our pharmacist (who is awesome). So he's back at school today and doing great.

But if we didn't have a good pharmacist who was willing to do that over the weekend I'd have absolutely taken him to the children's.
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Old 06-06-2023, 02:55 PM   #1963
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My last couple trips to emergency, the room wasn't full of people who had a slight flu or runny nose. There were really sick/injured people there that needed attention, yet had to wait 10 hours to see a doctor.
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Old 06-06-2023, 03:18 PM   #1964
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My last couple trips to emergency, the room wasn't full of people who had a slight flu or runny nose. There were really sick/injured people there that needed attention, yet had to wait 10 hours to see a doctor.
Not wrong, however sadly I can promise you there’s hundreds that have moved through the emergency room and are likely back in triage that shouldn’t be there and are taking up a spot for you or someone else who needs it.

There needs to be a better system, people started to use ambulances to get themselves seen faster and now we’ve seen that whole situation collapse around the city and suburbs.

95% of the time there’s no ambulances available in Cochrane and it’s taking over 90 minutes for one to come from Strathmore or Chestermere etc. so there’s plenty of wrong here but it’s not the arena deal holding that up.

But this is arena chat, I think we should keep it focused on that.
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Old 06-06-2023, 11:44 PM   #1965
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There is an economic boon vs not having a large stadium at all
Economic boon LOL, what is this earth shattering economic boon that comes from a new arena? Has Edmonton experienced it?
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Old 06-07-2023, 12:05 AM   #1966
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I'm pretty sure this dead horse has been beaten to a pulp, but I think all the studies around arenas make pretty clear that neither tangible nor intangible benefits (unless you're talking about intangible like... "I enjoy having a hockey team that plays here") are even significant enough to be worth mentioning, and any perceived economic benefits are actually the result of economic benefits moving from one area of the city to another, not new benefits being created.

Like, sure, it might benefit all those groups. But more than it costs? And more than they're already benefitting from anything else? No.

I live in Calgary, so I hope I am qualified to present this information.
Everyone says this but can you please provide these studies or do you know where they can be located?

Also have you (personally) read them?
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Old 06-07-2023, 12:23 AM   #1967
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My last couple trips to emergency, the room wasn't full of people who had a slight flu or runny nose. There were really sick/injured people there that needed attention, yet had to wait 10 hours to see a doctor.
You are so full of ####. There is no way you could possibly know what care they needed, and how long all of them waited to see a doctor.
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Old 06-07-2023, 02:39 AM   #1968
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Its shocking how many people call 911 for very minor things, there is absolutely a problem with the system and how often its abused. Now this info comes from various paramedics I know in the city and they could all very well just be super jaded. But they say 1/4 of calls are a complete waste of their time. That just seems crazy to me, I've never dialed 911 in my entire life, and they have some people they see over and over again who call 911, who are regulars.
FYP, also, they are known as 'frequent fliers'.
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Old 06-07-2023, 07:35 AM   #1969
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The City should just add the caveat that if the arena deal moves forward financially as is, then Murray Edwards is banned from medaling with hockey operations in any fashion. That alone has got to be worth a couple hundred million, but I'm pretty sure there has not been a study that I can link in regards to this.
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Old 06-07-2023, 07:38 AM   #1970
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Everyone says this but can you please provide these studies or do you know where they can be located?

Also have you (personally) read them?
I’ve read the studies that are available for free and otherwise read more than a few articles quoting economists and people who study public subsidies for a living. I feel like similar things have been posted in these threads multiple times, but here’s a handful of resources if you’re struggling to search them yourself:

This provides a few:

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/research/

This is an enlightening article which references and links a few:

https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-...profit-margin/

This is another article that’s worth reading:

https://www.investigativepost.org/20...m-new-stadium/
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Old 06-07-2023, 09:04 AM   #1971
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Originally Posted by 8sPOT View Post
Its shocking how many people call 911 for very minor things, there is absolutely a problem with the system and how often its abused. Now this info comes from various paramedics I know in the city and they could all very well just be super jaded. But they say 1/4 of calls are a complete waste of their time. That just seems crazy to me, I've never dialed 911 in my entire life, and they have some people they see over and over again who call 911, almost becoming regulars.
But that's probably the case in most cities and centres. We don't have a different populace, or different parents. Those other centers and provinces are able to work around that with wait times, education and a family GP outcome that's simply better.
Simply expecting a poor family, who likely called 811 and were told to go to a hospital in the first place, not to go to an ER is downright asinine by some responders in this thread.
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Old 06-07-2023, 10:39 AM   #1972
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Physicians interviewed for a recent CBC story cited patients who don’t need emergency care as the main factor in the wait time crisis. Many don’t have a family doctor, or the wait to see their doctor is two weeks or longer. So there are structural reasons for the misallocation of patients. But most people in emergency are not suffering from health emergencies - they’re suffering from some issue that they don’t want to wait 2-3 weeks to have looked at.

The whole way we deliver primary care needs to restructured.
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Old 06-07-2023, 10:41 AM   #1973
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You are so full of ####. There is no way you could possibly know what care they needed, and how long all of them waited to see a doctor.
I assume you are telling the people who claim they are coming in for no good reason the same thing?
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Old 06-07-2023, 10:51 AM   #1974
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If the province wasn't giving money to the city for infrastructure improvements, that doesn't mean the money automatically gets into the budget for health care. I am sure the province already budgeted the amount they think is appropriate and the arena deal and infrastructure improvements likely have no bearing on that at all. It probably just get put into other infrastructure projects across the province.

Good discussion. Probably worthy of it's own thread because improving health care is important.
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:13 AM   #1975
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In other unrelated news

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ecommendations
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:25 AM   #1976
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I wonder how many city councilors who voted against it are landlords or have realty gigs on the side. I know in BC, it's become controversial at both the municipal and provincial level because a lot of the people who make and pass the policies are also making a lot of money in the housing industry, or they have a spouse or family member who benefits.

Canada is very corrupt when it comes to housing.
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:27 AM   #1977
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This has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and should have been posted in the off topic section in the YYC politics thread.
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:31 AM   #1978
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Physicians interviewed for a recent CBC story cited patients who don’t need emergency care as the main factor in the wait time crisis. Many don’t have a family doctor, or the wait to see their doctor is two weeks or longer. So there are structural reasons for the misallocation of patients. But most people in emergency are not suffering from health emergencies - they’re suffering from some issue that they don’t want to wait 2-3 weeks to have looked at.

The whole way we deliver primary care needs to restructured.
Good post

With regards to the bolded...or they waited 2 weeks before even seeking treatment, if they waited to 2 weeks it obviously not an emergency. The solutions is to book an appointment, if the issue gets better, cancel, if not you have an appointment, if it becomes an emergency, then go to emerge. Don't have a family doctor at the moment or its a long wait, go to a walk-in-clinic. It is common sense. Also, some people do not have a family doctor because it is just too convenient to go to emerg (and then bitch about wait times).

Yesterday I also thought I would test this 2-3 weeks to see a family doctor, I have some upcoming tests and a referral that I need before going overseas so I called to book an appointment. I could easily get in this week and had my choice of times as early as Monday. I know that may not be all doctor offices, but I think it is an excuse for others and just gets used an anecdotal argument for many more.

Really this discussion should not be in this thread, I simply wanted to disassociate the funding of the event centre with Emergency room wait times. Throwing money at AHS will not fix the issue, like you said "The whole way we deliver primary care needs to restructured".

Last edited by Redlan; 06-07-2023 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:44 AM   #1979
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This has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and should have been posted in the off topic section in the YYC politics thread.
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:50 AM   #1980
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Let me get this straight. We have all these long wait times at hospitals at a time when the Flames have the oldest arena and football stadium in their leagues. Not funding an arena will magically fix this issue because all the money that may go to an arena would magically go to hospitals? Is that right?
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