Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I gotta think with all that US/NATO intelligence on their side, they might be able to surgically pick apart the defenses and predict troop movement.
Not only that, but they would likely have the best military strategists from all NATO countries helping plan this offensive.
I bet that intelligence predicted the destruction of the dam and how to adjust plans accordingly.
The videos from Ukraine on twitter after the dam destruction are pretty bad. Zoo totally flooded with all animals dead. Mines floating around and blowing buildings, Russians shelling evacuating citizens.
The videos from Ukraine on twitter after the dam destruction are pretty bad. Zoo totally flooded with all animals dead. Mines floating around and blowing buildings, Russians shelling evacuating citizens.
effing mothers! all the animals died except for the birds and a couple of beavers.
__________________ Peter12 "I'm no Trump fan but he is smarter than most if not everyone in this thread. ”
Yevgeny Prigozhin’s Wagner group of mercenaries has captured a Russian commander, as the notorious leader further escalates his feud with the regular army.
In a video posted on Prigozhin’s social media channels on Monday evening, Lt Col Roman Venevitin, the commander of Russia’s 72nd Brigade, tells an interrogator that, while drunk, he had ordered his troops to fire on a Wagner convoy.
In the footage, which resembled clips of prisoner of war soldiers, Venevitin said he acted because of his “personal dislike” for Wagner and then apologised.
Last week, Prigozhin accused the Russian army of trying to blow up his men as they were pulling back from the eastern Ukrainian town of Bakhmut.
The businessman, who is best known as “Putin’s chef” because of his catering contracts with the Kremlin, also claimed his men had discovered explosives, which he said were planted on purpose by defence ministry officials.
It's one of the things that gives me hope that the Russian forces start falling apart. There have been some reports that Ukraine has almost as many Chechens fighting for them as Russia has. Even some of the Kadyrovites have switched sides and declared a jihad against Russia. Apparently there was supposed to be a new mosque built in Moscow but Russian nationalists protested and the project was cancelled. Karydov said that any Russian protesting should go to Ukraine and take the weapons from Chechens and fight in their place.
I would not be surprised if part of Ukraine's planned offensive includes working with collaborators on the other side to get through the fortifications. That is my hope anyway. I could be too optimistic though.
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Implications of Russia blowing the dam. Mostly affects the Russian occupied side a lot more than the Ukrainian side for the time being.
US is declassifying evidence that Russia blew the dam. Not that anyone with half a brain didn't understand this already, but the Russian propagandists were already blaming the Ukrainians. https://twitter.com/user/status/1666124534469079062
Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I gotta think with all that US/NATO intelligence on their side, they might be able to surgically pick apart the defenses and predict troop movement.
Not only that, but they would likely have the best military strategists from all NATO countries helping plan this offensive.
I bet that intelligence predicted the destruction of the dam and how to adjust plans accordingly.
Godspeed Ukraine
Obviously that's a bonus, but I'm not sure how helpful NATO strategists are here compared to Ukrainians. This isn't a type of war NATO has experience with or even something they've been preparing for.
I'm not sure if there's any military in the world that had up-to-date plans for attacking deep fortified entrenched defensive positions before the war. This just isn't what 21st century warfare was supposed to look like.
Fortunately, Ukrainians have so far looked like fast learners, and superior intelligence is a big advantage, as is superior morale.
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Obviously that's a bonus, but I'm not sure how helpful NATO strategists are here compared to Ukrainians. This isn't a type of war NATO has experience with or even something they've been preparing for.
I'm not sure if there's any military in the world that had up-to-date plans for attacking deep fortified entrenched defensive positions before the war. This just isn't what 21st century warfare was supposed to look like.
Fortunately, Ukrainians have so far looked like fast learners, and superior intelligence is a big advantage, as is superior morale.
Isn't that just WWI tactics?
Won't NATO also know how to use their own weapons most effectively? I'm sure there is a lot of assistance they can provide.
The current trench warfare in Ukraine isn't really like any previous version in history. We now have drones, precision artillery, modern(ish) tanks and other armoured vehicles, long range air strikes, scatterable mines, body armour and night vision, modern communication tech...
One very basic difference, you can't concentrate troops for any length of time now, which makes the logistics really complicated.
While I'm sure people on both sides have been dusting off old manuals from military museums for tips and ideas, it's not like NATO has a bunch of ww1 generals in storage. Well, that we know of.
(Korean war and Finnish Continuation War lessons would probably be a little bit more applicable anyway.)
People make that comparison to WW1 for a reason, but really the war in Ukraine currently is pretty much it's own thing.
Quote:
Won't NATO also know how to use their own weapons most effectively? I'm sure there is a lot of assistance they can provide.
In that sense, but that's more technical assistance than strategic.
Disgusting and infuriating what the russians have done. Disgusting beyond words. This dam has been used as a WMD that has many consequences a certain WMD we all talk about would; potentially hundreds/thousands killed in a single mass event. An ecological disaster that kills thousands of animals and their habitats. A large land mass rendered uninhabitable. A precedent that now these kind of structures can be used as a weapon against civilians. Where is the "red line" for something like this?
Ukrainians socials are heartbreaking right now. Hundreds of people are trapped on their roofs in the Russian occupied parts of Kherson because russians refuse to evacuate them. The UA side of the river was evacuated. The ####ing russians won't let UA citizens leave. A bunch of live streams were being streamed a few hours ago of families trapped on roofs pleading for help and now they are off. I hope to god they got rescued somehow.
Last night there was a rally of support for Ukraine in Poppy Park on Memorial Drive. My roommates (whose home city is Nova Kakhovka) attended. Good show of support from the city, which was good to see. I asked if they noticed any russians among them. Said they didn't see or hear any. Strange, they must have been busy.
I sure hope the response from Western allies is swift and strong. Unshackling Ukraine from forcing them to fight with one arm tied behind it's back would be a good start. Send the long range missiles and let them unleash hell on military targets in russia.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 06-07-2023 at 09:11 AM.
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