And yet Biden can't come out and state that? Weak.
Another tactic would have been to say nothing.
"Pelosi is going to Taiwan? Did she get some Republicans to go with them"
The visit was to piss them off and send a message, the statement was to leave them enough face they didnt feel they needed to do something stupid to retaliate, unless you think war with China would be a good idea right now?
If anything, Biden has been much tougher and more hawkish internationally than his predecessor. He is just doing it with a much less rogue and solitary approach.
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I always assume JohnnyB is pro-PRC here so that the secret police monitoring his internet usage don't mark up his file as being a dangerous subversive.
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I don't really have much of a dislike for Pelosi, but I am in favour of peaceful co-development between China and the West, and I see this much more as a provocative move at a time when tensions and relationships have already been heading in the wrong direction. A Pelosi visit is quite different from a visit by Trump's Secretary of Health, as should be pretty evident by the media coverage, by the hundreds of thousands watching her flight tracker, and by the response of the markets. Pelosi visiting is a much bigger statement, and it's an unnecessary statement imo.
Trump's secretary of Health is part of his Admin, therefore a representation of him. Despite the public reaction, that was an official endorsement of the President to visit Taiwan without CCP approval.
An incorrect standard has been applied to Nancy, right or wrong.
But ya, we do disagree with if she is going is the "right" thing to do or not
If anything, Biden has been much tougher and more hawkish internationally than his predecessor. He is just doing it with a much less rogue and solitary approach.
This is very true, Trump killing the TPP agreement was one of the largest pro-China moves the US has made in a long time - Obama and Biden are rallies* of allies and Trump was an isolationist.
*lets not forget Keystone however....
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Trump's secretary of Health is part of his Admin, therefore a representation of him. Despite the public reaction, that was an official endorsement of the President to visit Taiwan without CCP approval.
An incorrect standard has been applied to Nancy, right or wrong.
But ya, we do disagree with if she is going is the "right" thing to do or not
Yeah, you're definitely understating the political importance of Pelosi and overstating the political importance of Cochran. Or was it Wright? Or Price? Maybe Hargan? Possibly Azar?... I can never remember which of them was Secretary of Health and Human Services at that point during the four-year Trump admin.
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I always assume JohnnyB is pro-PRC here so that the secret police monitoring his internet usage don't mark up his file as being a dangerous subversive.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but pretty sure nobody's checking my internet.
I suppose if you want another reason to a priori rule out the opinion of someone you disagree with, you could turn to Girly's take that "These arguments are made by people who are bought off by China and Russia". Unfortunately, I'm not getting paid to post here on CP either. Wish I was though.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but pretty sure nobody's checking my internet.
I suppose if you want another reason to a priori rule out the opinion of someone you disagree with, you could turn to Girly's take that "These arguments are made by people who are bought off by China and Russia". Unfortunately, I'm not getting paid to post here on CP either. Wish I was though.
everybody's internet is being checked
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Ha, very true. I don't think I'm of any special interest though to anyone beyond the norm. The ones that are checking mostly just seem to want to know which ads to target me with or when I'm most likely to have run out of toilet paper or the like.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I suppose if you want another reason to a priori rule out the opinion of someone you disagree with
I was mostly kidding. Mostly. You don't seem rabidly irrational enough to be a PRC stooge, just irrational in a different and slightly deeper way than us Western stooges.
That said, weaponizing internet logs against its citizens is definitely something the PRC does. Unless you believe the Great Firewall of China is atypical of their approach to information tracking and control. Automation of data gathering is trivial nowadays.
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I was mostly kidding. Mostly. You don't seem rabidly irrational enough to be a PRC stooge, just irrational in a different and slightly deeper way than us Western stooges.
That said, weaponizing internet logs against its citizens is definitely something the PRC does. Unless you believe the Great Firewall of China is atypical of their approach to information tracking and control. Automation of data gathering is trivial nowadays.
I was also mostly kidding, but statements like yours and Girly's do seem to get used a lot by people who simply want to invalidate the views or information shared by people they disagree with on the topic of China, particularly those people who have actual experience with China. And, there is a raging industry of media and content creators hopping on the money train of grabbing attention by preying upon people's ignorance about China to stir up fears and hysteria. The invalidation of differing views quite often goes hand-in-hand with the hysterical content in a pretty toxic spiral towards people being more close-minded, more fearful and more receptive to that kind of content.
For sure data is gathered and used by China. Edward Snowden made it clear how wantonly that was being done even by the US years ago, and China is very sophisticated in this now. I'm not worried though, and I don't live there anymore.
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Last edited by JohnnyB; 08-02-2022 at 07:28 PM.
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As bleak as things have felt down here since the original leak re: Roe v Wade, this was really good to see. Quite a sign of how unpopular this is that even in a pretty comfortably red state like Kansas, a ballot measure like this can fail so dramatically.
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I don't really have much of a dislike for Pelosi, but I am in favour of peaceful co-development between China and the West, and I see this much more as a provocative move at a time when tensions and relationships have already been heading in the wrong direction. A Pelosi visit is quite different from a visit by Trump's Secretary of Health, as should be pretty evident by the media coverage, by the hundreds of thousands watching her flight tracker, and by the response of the markets. Pelosi visiting is a much bigger statement, and it's an unnecessary statement imo.
Peaceful co-development between China and the West should not continue to happen so long as China maintains its beligerence over Taiwan. Western nations should absolutely refuse to work with China, and call the CCP out on its outright lies (the '1992 consensus'), when it comes to China's position regarding one of the strongest, most vibrant democracies in Asia.
China should be pressured relentlessly to, at the very least, drop its objections to Taiwan participating fully in such international forums as the World Health Organization and the International Civil Aviation Organization.
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As bleak as things have felt down here since the original leak re: Roe v Wade, this was really good to see. Quite a sign of how unpopular this is that even in a pretty comfortably red state like Kansas, a ballot measure like this can fail so dramatically.
The Dems need to push Roe v Wade in 2024. Think it's enough to help them win.
As bleak as things have felt down here since the original leak re: Roe v Wade, this was really good to see. Quite a sign of how unpopular this is that even in a pretty comfortably red state like Kansas, a ballot measure like this can fail so dramatically.
First off, very happy this failed. However, I worry it might not be much of an indicator of political shifts. And I say that because one of my best friends and roommates from college is active in Kansas politics and having heard from him about this effort over the last several months, I know that a LOT of work went into striking this down. And I'm not sure such a sustained effort is possible for the general election when you are trying to contest races everywhere, its just exhausting.
I feel like the democratic party can put together pretty good individual campaigns but the republican party is better at running an overarching strategy that works across the board.
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I was also mostly kidding, but statements like yours and Girly's do seem to get used a lot by people who simply want to invalidate the views or information shared by people they disagree with on the topic of China, particularly those people who have actual experience with China. And, there is a raging industry of media and content creators hopping on the money train of grabbing attention by preying upon people's ignorance about China to stir up fears and hysteria. The invalidation of differing views quite often goes hand-in-hand with the hysterical content in a pretty toxic spiral towards people being more close-minded, more fearful and more receptive to that kind of content.
For sure data is gathered and used by China. Edward Snowden made it clear how wantonly that was being done even by the US years ago, and China is very sophisticated in this now. I'm not worried though, and I don't live there anymore.