American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[dobbles]

Also, when will Americans realize that the path to a 3rd party is not through the presidential election??? If you truly want to build a new party, you start from the ground up. You start getting people elected to state legislatures and build from there. I am glad this new party has some high profile founders, but if they just turn it into a platform for Yang and Whitman to run on the presidential ticket in 2 years then its a giant waste of time.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Also, when will Americans realize that the path to a 3rd party is not through the presidential election??? If you truly want to build a new party, you start from the ground up. You start getting people elected to state legislatures and build from there. I am glad this new party has some high profile founders, but if they just turn it into a platform for Yang and Whitman to run on the presidential ticket in 2 years then its a giant waste of time.

Yeah, it has to be done at local level. A party has to be formed then maybe a few defectors from Democrats who have seats have to switch to this new party. Kind of like Bernie Sanders sitting with the new party instead of as an independent.

The example I can think of is the ADQ in Quebec. In the 80s, Quebec was two parties, Liberal and PQ. They formed in 1994 after the failures of Meech Lake and Charlottetown. Elected one guy (Dumont) and had a defector or two. Eventually they merged into CAQ and now they are the party forming government.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by SebC

You know what's worse than two crappy parties? Two crappy parties and a third party that swings more votes from the less crappy party and causes the crappier one to win.

Yeah, and the team least likely to be affected by a third party would be the team who's shown a remarkable aptitude for engineering the election results they want, and finding creatively abhorrent ways to effectively have their agenda passed.

The GOP will take advantage of a third party's emergence and the Democrats will whine about it.

[nfotiu]

The way to do it effectively is following the Tea Party blue print and just run candidates in local primaries. I wouldn't mind a split Democratic party with an organized centrist faction and an organized progressive faction. I think they could work together on sound center-left policies.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

The way to do it effectively is following the Tea Party blue print and just run candidates in local primaries. I wouldn't mind a split Democratic party with an organized centrist faction and an organized progressive faction. I think they could work together on sound center-left policies.

That's no longer a 3rd party, Tea Party is more of a movement than an actual party. They are still Republicans.

here we're talking about both unhappy Republicans and Democrats forming a centrist party. They would not enter primaries, they would just register and run.

[chemgear]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1552223512642863104

[PeteMoss]

Obviously can't count it as passed until it does, but the do-nothing Democrats have evidently reached an agreement with Joe Manchin on a climate and tax package:

The $369 billion climate and tax package forged in a surprise deal by Senate Democrats on Wednesday would be the most ambitious action ever taken by the United States to try to stop the planet from catastrophically overheating.

The agreement, which Senate Democrats hope to pass as early as next week, shocked even some who had been involved in the sputtering negotiations over climate legislation during the past year. The announcement of a deal, after many activists had given up hope, almost instantly reset the role of the United States in the global effort to fight climate change.

The bill aims to tackle global warming by using billions of dollars in tax incentives to ramp up wind, solar, geothermal, battery and other clean energy industries over the next decade. Companies would receive financial incentives to keep open nuclear plants that might have closed, or to capture emissions from industrial facilities and bury them underground before they can warm the planet. Car buyers with incomes below a certain level would receive a $7,500 tax credit to purchase a new electric vehicle and $4,000 for a used one. Americans would receive rebates to install heat pumps and make their homes more energy-efficient.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/c...l-manchin.html

[opendoor]

The bill also adjusts the Made in the USA requirement for EV credits by changing it to Made in North America, which is good news for car manufacturing in Canada if that language survives the final vote.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Obviously can't count it as passed until it does, but the do-nothing Democrats have evidently reached an agreement with Joe Manchin on a climate and tax package:





https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/c...l-manchin.html

Sounds like Sinema might still be a "no."

[Lanny_McDonald]

She doesn't have enough stock in green companies.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Obviously can't count it as passed until it does, but the do-nothing Democrats have evidently reached an agreement with Joe Manchin on a climate and tax package:





https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/c...l-manchin.html

A used car subsidy might be the dumbest green subsidy I have heard of.

[Mathgod]

Language warning

NSFW!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GGG

A used car subsidy might be the dumbest green subsidy I have heard of.

Why - wouldn't people buying used cars be more green than people buying new cars?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Why - wouldn't people buying used cars be more green than people buying new cars?

Because the car already exists in the market.

I don’t care if person A or person B owns the new car.

This just raises the price of a used car by the amount of the subsidy.

The best a used car subsidy can do is increase the sale price of a used car which decreases the delta between a used car and a new car which encourages a current owner to sel their used car and buy a new car which increases demand for a new car which encourages a manufacturer to build or expand production.

The goal is to increase the manufacturing of electric cars so just subsidize the manufacturing of electric cars. Now you want to encourage competition so instead of directly subsidizing manufacturing you subsidize the first sale. Once
That car is in the market you have accomplished your goal. This way you can control and direct things like maximum prices. The idea of a used car subsidy is that lower income benefit but unless there is a max price the subsidy applies to then all it does is raise prices

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

Because the car already exists in the market.

I don’t care if person A or person B owns the new car.

This just raises the price of a used car by the amount of the subsidy.

The best a used car subsidy can do is increase the sale price of a used car which decreases the delta between a used car and a new car which encourages a current owner to sel their used car and buy a new car which increases demand for a new car which encourages a manufacturer to build or expand production.

The goal is to increase the manufacturing of electric cars so just subsidize the manufacturing of electric cars. Now you want to encourage competition so instead of directly subsidizing manufacturing you subsidize the first sale. Once
That car is in the market you have accomplished your goal. This way you can control and direct things like maximum prices. The idea of a used car subsidy is that lower income benefit but unless there is a max price the subsidy applies to then all it does is raise prices

Interesting take on it. I would think the market would dictate the price by what people are willing to pay, but I can see what you're saying. As an EV owner I welcome this benefit of the rebate on used EVs. Makes the market for used EVs that much larger!

[SebC]

Can you sell a car to me and I sell it back to you and we get $4000 each?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

The way to do it effectively is following the Tea Party blue print and just run candidates in local primaries. I wouldn't mind a split Democratic party with an organized centrist faction and an organized progressive faction. I think they could work together on sound center-left policies.

It sounds nice in the ideal world vision but in reality, the GOP takes every election for the foreseeable future as this third party trims more voters from the Dems.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SebC

Can you sell a car to me and I sell it back to you and we get $4000 each?

I like the way you think! Give me some of that government cheese!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Interesting take on it. I would think the market would dictate the price by what people are willing to pay, but I can see what you're saying. As an EV owner I welcome this benefit of the rebate on used EVs. Makes the market for used EVs that much larger!

But the important question is does it make the supply of used EVs higher which would be the question the Climate cares about.

And then does an EV driver selling their EV choose to buy another EV because if they don’t then you subsidized the purchase of a brand new gas vehicle.

I agree that current owners just saw the value of their vehicle increase 4k

[rubecube]

I know we're 2.5 years out but yeesh.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1552482127404490752