NJ aren’t trading one of their best forwards to obtain a trade chip at the deadline. They could always trade Palmeri at the deadline in 2021, and meanwhile they have him for an additional year.
Brodie plays a poor defensive game and is not considered a top pairing d-man. He certainly has value though.
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Moving an asset at this asset allows them to rebuild a year earlier. Doesnt matter if palmerie is a top forward for them - just goes to show how weak they are upfront. He is a strong second line forward on a good team.
I would offer each of them a 2 year extension and who ever signs first stays. I'm okay if they end up trading both.Even though i like Hamonic more, I think Hamonics shelf life is less than Brodies, so i would not go over a 2 year deal.
Neither player will or should take a two-year extension at age 29. That's how the Flames lose both guys.
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Neither player will or should take a two-year extension at age 29. That's how the Flames lose both guys.
Then thats fine. I can see teams in free agency offering 4- 5 year deals to both. Those teams will end up regretting that. They will be 30 when they start their new deals.
I would keep Hamonic. He is a righty which helps, he wanted to come to western Canada so I assume he will want to stay and his numbers do not suggest a $6+ million contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a 7 to 8 year deal that he would give a nice discount.
Brodie isn't really effective on the PP, isn't great 5 on 5 without Gio and probably could ask for a contract close to $7 million.
Treliving can resign both this summer so he should have an idea who is interested in staying and who is interested in getting paid.
I would offer each of them a 2 year extension and who ever signs first stays. I'm okay if they end up trading both.Even though i like Hamonic more, I think Hamonics shelf life is less than Brodies, so i would not go over a 2 year deal.
Neither are going to sign that, their agents probably laugh as they hand up.
Twenty-eight years old, playing top four roles, one year away from free agency? These two are going to get paid, and five years is the minimum for the deal. In terms of dollars Hamonic will be the easiest to sign, doesn't put up points, wants to play out west or in Canada by all reports, but you bet he'l be pushing for six years.
But more so, Brodie seems to struggle in big games when the pressure is on. It's a symptom that has been part of this core group for a while now and it doesn't seem to be getting better. We knew that a shake up was going to happen to the core of this team, and it only makes sense that Brodie and his mental fragility would be the most likely to go. Replace him with Andersson who doesn't have his mobility, but also doesn't get rattled and can elevate his game when asked, and you're already doing better.
So the current narrative is
- Smith was a beast and awesome, and all that, in the playoffs
- Brodie is fragile
- Brodie struggles in the big games that matter
- Andersson doesn’t get rattled
- Andersson can elevate his game when asked
Let’s go all the way back to the last game the Flames played and check on all of these
- it’s 1-0 . Raantanen banks one in off of Smith’s back. Now 2-0
- Brodie who can’t elevate his game scores to make it 2-1, clearly struggling in games that matter
- it’s 2-1. Raantanen picks Ryan’s pocket as he tries to exit the zone, but the puck comes to Andersson. He weakly swats at it backhand and gives it back to Wilson who plays give and go with Raantanen and it is promptly 3-1 Avs
Basically all of the arguments being made have actual events that are the exact opposite in the very last game the Flames played.
Look, the Flames have a few young D with intriguing skill sets that overlap with Brodie, and they have shown they can play at the NHL level. But they are not there yet.
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Neither are going to sign that, their agents probably laugh as they hand up.
Twenty-eight years old, playing top four roles, one year away from free agency? These two are going to get paid, and five years is the minimum for the deal. In terms of dollars Hamonic will be the easiest to sign, doesn't put up points, wants to play out west or in Canada by all reports, but you bet he'l be pushing for six years.
and again then don't re-sign them. They will both be 29 in a couple of months. When they start their next contract they will both be 30. You want to be paying these guys until they are 35? Sorry but the NHL has changed, at its a young mans game now.
Edit : my last sentence has me laughing. They are both a hell of a lot younger than me.LOL
If you can move both in packaged deals and have Frolik and Neal go along I think you pull the trigger. Would clear out a ton of cap space and the assets you get back would set us up for perhaps another solid draft.
If you can move both in packaged deals and have Frolik and Neal go along I think you pull the trigger. Would clear out a ton of cap space and the assets you get back would set us up for perhaps another solid draft.
not trying to be a jerk, but you know all those trade proposals by Oilers fans involving Lucic in the E=NG thread we all laugh about?
in a bizarro world, they look at threads from Calgary involving Neal the same way...
i like Neal, but boy, was i wrong on his contract.... they is absolutely no way you get rid of his contract, barring a trade that looks even worse than the Kotalik ejection...If you were a fan of another team, what would it take for you to take on Neal and his contract?
i'd be really surprised if they got rid of both Hamonic and Brodie tho...outside of Gio, not a lot of veterans left to help mentor those players if you get rid of both.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuss275
and again then don't re-sign them. They will both be 29 in a couple of months. When they start their next contract they will both be 30. You want to be paying these guys until they are 35? Sorry but the NHL has changed, at its a young mans game now.
Edit : my last sentence has me laughing. They are both a hell of a lot younger than me.LOL
Only to a point and way moreso up front than on the blueline.
Top 2 point producers this past season are 34 and 35 years old respectively. 3 of the top 5 are 30+ with a 4th being 29.
So it depends on the player.
Personally I dont think you want to be paying either of Hamonic or Brodie to age 35 but i know one guy is way more likely to be able to still play his game the same way for the next 5 years over the other because of the style of game he plays.
Kind of moot though...one of the two will be staying and extended, and no doubt in my mind the one staying is Hamonic as the club lacks what he brings already. He will also be cheaper to retain IMO.
If I'm Treliving I'm moving Brodie, but not for the reason you'd expect.
Brodie has been part of this rebuilding core that has struggled to rise to the occasion mentally. While I will admit that Hamonic didn't have a great playoff series this year, it is MacKinnon and co. so I'll give him a small pass. In years past, Hamonic has reliably risen to the occasion in big games and playoffs. Brodie hasn't done so since 2014.
I think Brodie's issues are mostly mental, as his physical gifts haven't diminished much over the years. It's not so much a problem of "oops, I made a mistake", because all players do that, even Giordano. The problem is that when he makes a mistake or something goes wrong, his game entirely falls apart and you have to drop him down to the 3rd pairing to shelter him until he figures it out. Sometimes that takes a game, sometimes it takes weeks. Hamonic may make mistakes or have bad games, but he doesn't get down and he keeps battling to the end.
But more so, Brodie seems to struggle in big games when the pressure is on. It's a symptom that has been part of this core group for a while now and it doesn't seem to be getting better. We knew that a shake up was going to happen to the core of this team, and it only makes sense that Brodie and his mental fragility would be the most likely to go. Replace him with Andersson who doesn't have his mobility, but also doesn't get rattled and can elevate his game when asked, and you're already doing better.
However, if a Hamonic trade also gives you a good return and cap flexibility, then do it too. I love Hamonic's style of game, but I've learned not to fall too much in love with role players over the years. The only problem with moving Hamonic is that we don't have a prospect who can play that style of game, so you would hope the return involves a young d-man who can play a strong physical defensive game.
So I guess what I'm saying is you can, and possibly should, move both. I'd start with Brodie, but Hamonic can be had as well. Then you let the kids run with it and possibly make a trade near the deadline if needed to shore up the defense.
I'm good with that group. I just hope someone can learn to play on their off-side.
While I generally agree that the Flames's issues in the playoffs were almost entirely psychological, it is a fool's errand from our vantage point attempting to isolate those players who are "mentally fragile" from those who are not. How is it you absolve Giordano from the same symptoms when his own playoff track record is arguably worse than Brodie's?
I am neither arguing against the ideas that the team needs to be more psychologically prepared for the playoffs, nor that Giordano is in fact part of the problem; rather, that while we can see what the problem is in broad strokes, from our perspective as fans we don't know how to fix it without having any real insight into which players are actually "mentally fragile," and which ones are less so. We do not.
I won't be surprised to see one of Brodie or Hamonic traded this summer, but I cannot imagine the Flames will move both. As much promise as the young guys have shown, it may be too much too soon.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
If you can move both in packaged deals and have Frolik and Neal go along I think you pull the trigger. Would clear out a ton of cap space and the assets you get back would set us up for perhaps another solid draft.
Brodie, Hamonic,Frolik, & Neal in one package.....please.
Sounds like a smart ploy to get one of them to sign a low AAV extension honestly. Both want to be here but only one can long term.
Reverse bidding war. Move the other for picks.
It is a nice idea in theory, but it will never happen. Both Brodie and Hamonic are pending UFAs, and as much as both of them wants to be here neither one is going to sign a short-term offer when they are faced with the promise of signing—probably for the last time—a multi-year, multimillion dollar deal that carries them through to retirement.
In a "take it or leave it" scenario as proposed above, BOTH players would balk, and the Flames end up with neither. It's a bad idea that would never work.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Sounds like a smart ploy to get one of them to sign a low AAV extension honestly. Both want to be here but only one can long term.
Reverse bidding war. Move the other for picks.
Personally I think the Flames put both players out there to see what's on the market. By having both guys out there.entices teams with different needs. This likely would increase more options for the Flame's.
The Flames are probably content on keeping either player, but have a specific need and need to maximise the return.
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I wonder what the Flames could get from Winnipeg for Hamonic?
Trouba is an RFA and could likely be traded because he will cost a ton cap wise, plus Myers is a UFA. The still have Buff and Niku as RHD, but I'm sure they'd love to bring a vet like Hamonic in, especially if they like the prospects of getting him signed to a team friendly extension due to their location.
