[Trade] Dreger & McKenzie of TSN: Toffoli traded to VAN for Madden, Schaller, and 2020 2nd

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Give your heads a shake people. Wake up and look at the standings. Dumping Hamonic/Brodie without getting a top 4 dmen back some other way was NEVER happening. Just a total misread of the situation by some of you.

At this time of year you are not making a hockey deal for either of those guys. If they are being traded, it's because the team is very sure that they can not re-sign them, and they would rather return an asset(s) than keep them for a playoff push and lose them for nothing. So you likely are adding draft picks and or prospects, which you would hold until at least the draft if not longer.

I was actually thinking that the Bouwmeester situation may put St.Louis in the market for a top 4 D that they previously were not in, and that they could be a good landing spot for Brodie. They may be willing to put together a decent package to try and fill that void since they are in win now mode.

But now, I don't see anyway in which the Flames would entertain a Brodie deal as they look like they will still be in the playoff mix in a week and if they move him they would essentially be putting the team in a tough spot to get in.

Ultimately if the Flames can work out a Boumeester type contract for Brodie I would be happy to keep him on the roster. But not being privy to any of these discussions I don't know what the temperature on an extension is. My hunch is that Brodie may prefer to test the market, and possibly move back East, but it's solely my own hunch, no source to back it up. But he has been the one guy the Flames tried to move in beefing up the forward ranks last summer.

I can see why some would lean to the trade some of these guys and retool a bit in the next year or two in order to get the team in a position to take a run. I don't think I'd be telling those folks to give their head a shake though.

[Anduril]

For those believing Vancouver is rushing things, I agree for the most part but there is some thought to be concept of making those big signing/pushes when your best young players are still on their ELCs.

That said, when those same young players are on their 2nd contract and inevitably get huge deals, you're likely low on those cheap youngsters coming in to fill those bottom roles.

[afc wimbledon]

I suspect part of Benning's thought process is not wanting to risk missing the playoffs with Peterson coming into his prime, I think they see making the playoffs, regardless of how deep, as part of his and Horvat and Boeser's crucial development.

I suspect they do not want the team to do an Edmonton and learn to be complacent about missing the playoffs

[afc wimbledon]

nm

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I suspect part of Benning's thought process is not wanting to risk missing the playoffs with Peterson coming into his prime, I think they see making the playoffs, regardless of how deep, as part of his and Horvat and Boeser's crucial development.

I suspect they do not want the team to do an Edmonton and learn to be complacent about missing the playoffs

This. Sweet jesus this.


Sometimes you have to have young players getting there, preferably early on, so they understand just what they're getting into in the NHL play-offs. That's also why he overpaid for guys like Beagle and brought in guys like Pearson and now Toffoli. So when Petterson, Hughes, Virtanen, et al get there they have support from guys who've been there and done it.


You can't rebuild forever. Edmonton and Buffalo have tried and even with top-end elite talent it means jack #### if they're not given the right pieces to succeed.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

Should have moved Hamonic earlier. Now they get nothing for two expiring contracts.

I guess we should be happy with the pick he got for Frolik.

Earlier when? Before the trade deadline drove up prices? Then Treliving would be blamed for jumping the gun when the present deals were being made.

[868904]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Earlier when? Before the trade deadline drove up prices? Then Treliving would be blamed for jumping the gun when the present deals were being made.

Well better than nothing. I know it’s after the fact but...

With Hamonic’s injury history, probably should have been a bit more proactive and risk averse.

I think when Andersson started showing that he was ready for top 4 minutes, it was probably time to move Hamonic. Hamonic got legitimately pushed out of the top 4 and it wasn’t an efficient use of cap space for your third pairing right side defenceman.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

Well better than nothing. I know it’s after the fact but...

With Hamonic’s injury history, probably should have been a bit more proactive and risk averse.

I think when Andersson started showing that he was ready for top 4 minutes, it was probably time to move Hamonic. Hamonic got legitimately pushed out of the top 4 and it wasn’t an efficient use of cap space for your third pairing right side defenceman.

Hamonic's injury history is not really that predictable. Prior to this as a Flame he had a facial fracture in 2018, and prior to that he'd had some knee issues but different knees. I don't think you trade a guy because maybe he might get hit the wrong way one day.

And can you imagine the cry if he'd traded Hamonic at the same time as, say, Frolik, for the same return and now the same kind of guys are getting seconds? No win IMO.

The cap space on an expiring contract, where you already have a bunch of space from the Frolik deal, isn't a reason to move the guy early, unless you need it for the deal to get a guy like Hall right then and there.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamonic's injury history is not really that predictable. Prior to this as a Flame he had a facial fracture in 2018, and prior to that he'd had some knee issues but different knees. I don't think you trade a guy because maybe he might get hit the wrong way one day.

And can you imagine the cry if he'd traded Hamonic at the same time as, say, Frolik, for the same return and now the same kind of guys are getting seconds? No win IMO.

The cap space on an expiring contract, where you already have a bunch of space from the Frolik deal, isn't a reason to move the guy early, unless you need it for the deal to get a guy like Hall right then and there.

How great would it be if Arizona decides to cut their losses and trade Hall to Calgary (after hearing rumours that he wants to sign there anyways) for a 1st and 2nd. Calgary then recoups a 1st by trading Hamonic....

A man can dream.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

How great would it be if Arizona decides to cut their losses and trade Hall to Calgary (after hearing rumours that he wants to sign there anyways) for a 1st and 2nd. Calgary then recoups a 1st by trading Hamonic....

A man can dream.

I don't think I make that deal, not that Hammer gets you a first right now. Mainly because, even if you know Hall wants to sign here, you are pretty much losing all leverage in that contract negotiation by spending a first and second. If you don't agree to his terms you are losing those assets for nothing. So he comes in after you've spent that and wants Panarin money.

I'd rather take my chances on the open market. Maybe the GMs league don't want to give him that much and you get him at a lower salary and you keep your picks.

I don't think the Flames are in go for it mode, which they would need to be to do that deal.

[united]

I'm a Toffoli fan but this price was a bit steep for my liking for a UFA. Madden, while small, is a very good prospect. The Canucks re-signing Toffoli to a reasonable contract would lessen the blow somewhat, but they didn't know that at the time of the trade so are taking a large gamble.

A legitimate contender making this trade would be passable, but an ordinary team doing this is not good. But, given it's the Canucks, I fully support this and any other ill-advised moves they make.